# "When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." Origin? Source? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906 "2006-09-08T13:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/21 "2006-09-09T22:49:49Z")
A 1948 newspaper citing from the same writer as in the 1955 one about the (Naval) War College football team cry. He told the same story in a 1948 column. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/22 "2006-09-10T00:03:05Z")
My Google-fu found [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry\_id=8475](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=8475) > [@](#): > > “When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout” actually comes from **Reefs and Shoals** , the rulebook for cadets at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. This dates back to at least the late 20s. I have found no corroborating evidence, however. ---
**Author:** ![Nightsong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightsong/32/3083_2.png) [@Nightsong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightsong)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/23 "2006-09-10T02:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Good catch! I can find this cited in a 1954 newspaper article, but there were NO OTHER hits for that phrase. Interesting. Just someone who heard it, and morphed it in another way. This was upstate NY, FWIW. [/QUOTE] How odd that this version of the phrase had a hit in NY, considering that I’m from (mainly) the midwest. _scratches head_ I doubt that I would have heard it from my grandpa (who was in the Navy circa… er… Korean War era if I remember correctly), but I would have heard it either being said or in a book. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/24 "2006-09-10T04:01:46Z")
The phrase is a parody of another phrase, something telling you not to panic. I think it was in an old BSA handbook. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/25 "2006-09-10T14:48:49Z")
“Spider” John Koerner. Stuff yer cites. “Spider” John Koerner. Send him some money. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/26 "2006-09-10T16:03:08Z")
[“Spider” John Koerner](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=br_ss_hs/102-9754824-6886505?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dmusic&keywords=%22Spider%22+John+Koerner&Go.x=11&Go.y=16) for easy reference. Info also available on allmusic. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/27 "2006-09-10T18:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] “Spider” John Koerner. Stuff yer cites. “Spider” John Koerner. Send him some money. [/QUOTE] No, no he didn’t. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/28 "2006-09-10T21:25:57Z")
You can find it, along with other amusing bits of rhyme, in one of the two collections illustrated by Wallace Tripp: _Marguerite, go wash your feet_ or _A great big ugly man came up and tied his horse to me_. IIRC, there was no attribution. I’m pretty sure it’s in _Marguerite_, and will check it if I go to my mom’s place for dinner. Meanwhile, every Doper would enjoy both books, so go check them out of your friendly neighborhood public library… ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/29 "2006-09-10T22:19:18Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] You can find it, along with other amusing bits of rhyme, in one of the two collections illustrated by Wallace Tripp: _Marguerite, go wash your feet_ or _A great big ugly man came up and tied his horse to me_. IIRC, there was no attribution. I’m pretty sure it’s in _Marguerite_, and will check it if I go to my mom’s place for dinner. Meanwhile, every Doper would enjoy both books, so go check them out of your friendly neighborhood public library… [/QUOTE] Do these volumes predate the 1920’s? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906.md?page=1)