# When is a boycott justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731 "2008-11-14T17:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/61 "2008-11-16T18:25:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There’s no trap I’m trying to set. I’m simply trying to understand at what point someone is “allowed” to hold a position you object to when it triggers you to intentionally harm them. The whole point of a boycott is to “harm,” if you want to think of it that way. It’s also “voting with your wallet” and exerting pressure to support your cause. It’s freedom and democracy in action. It gets attention, and if played right, gets results. Of course, it can also easily backfire. This time, it worked. It exposed hypocrisy. The religious right has no qualms about doing the same thing. They’ve been [doing it all along](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/10/faith-based_boycotts.html). > [@](#): > > **McDonald’s Yields to Anti-Gay Boycott** > > In the growing culture war battles over same-sex marriage, economic boycotts seem to be the weapon of choice. > > Earlier this week, the conservative Christian American Family Association announced that it was calling off its five-month boycott of McDonald’s after the fast-food giant ended it relationship with the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce. AFA has led boycotts against Ford, Disney and Hallmark for similar reasons. The religious right maintains lists of companies their people should be boycotting. They’ll target companies that dare to extend partner benefits to gays. These are the same people who claim all they’re doing is protecting the word “marriage.” But they’re not content with that. I’m not naive. They actively try to take away all rights that pertain to someone’s orientation. They actively promote discrimination against people based on their orientation. They’re hateful, pure and simple. I think individuals have a right to keep their vote private, but when it comes to spending money to get laws passed, society needs to be able to follow the money. The religious right is comfortable playing the game from its historical position of power, but now the table gets turned one time they start crying “foul” and “no fair!” Poor innocents! Collateral damage! Please. They happily and actively harm people every moment of every day, and will continue to do so until everyone has the equal rights they’re intent on denying people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/62 "2008-11-19T15:15:20Z")
I’ve been thinking about this. I’d like to change my stance maybe. Atleast play devil’s advocate. This person is vile human scum for what his hate helped do to other people, but what about the political process? What kind of impact of having to fear “saying the wrong things” or supporting things not inline with the majority have on Free Speech and freedom of dissension? Say a different scenario. Say a boss honestly believed abortion was murder, and people who supported Obama where murders for the abortions he’d support. Not putting whether abortion is murder into the debate. Just the fact some people believe it is and should be stopped. I personally believe it isn’t so arguing to me that it isn’t would just be preaching to the choir. Said boss then went through his employee parking lot and fired any employee with an Obama bumper sticker. Would this be okay? Sure it’d be legal in at will states. That’s what we have here. An attempt to remove some from a job because they support something you morally condemn that’s unrelated to the job. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/63 "2008-11-19T15:27:47Z")
Boycotts can be very effective way to pressure sponsors. They were important in the civil rights fights of the 60s. They should not be over used but saved for important issues. I favor personal boycotts too. We have a huge republican sponsor who runs a restaurant in my area. He is vocal and pushy with signs . I do not go there. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/64 "2008-11-19T16:14:19Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Said boss then went through his employee parking lot and fired any employee with an Obama bumper sticker. Would this be okay? Sure it’d be legal in at will states. I’m not an HR professional, but actually that probably would be illegal. “At will” as I understand it means you can be fired for no reason. But if you decide to fire someone _for_ a reason, you have to be careful about that reason. If this employer fired everyone with an Obama sticker, he’d probably get sued. What he could do, is keep his mouth shut and start quietly firing everyone who had an Obama sticker, and hope no one connected the dots. That’s what sucks about “at will.” Clever employers know better than to actually state why they’re firing you. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/65 "2008-11-19T17:26:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I don’t see why? Coke is putting their brand behind their advertising. It’s completely honest to hold them to the consequences of that speech. That’s kind of the whole point of advertising. I think this is wrong because you’re punishing a company because they want the widest possible clientele base. Using the Bill O’Reilly example, say this statement out loud and see if it doesn’t sound foolish. “I won’t drink Coke because Coke wants Right-Wing Republicans to buy their product.” The fact of the matter is that Coke wants Liberals/Libertarians/you name it to consume their product. How are they supposed to reach that audience other than to advertise on programs that audience appreciates? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/66 "2008-11-19T17:33:33Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Take it for what you will. It means, I’m Christian, and proud of it. > > To some that means, “okay, good for you.” > > To me it means, “I’ll take your rights away.” > > I’d never knowingly spend money at the latter business. Put a swastika in your phone book ad and see if I shop there. But with a swastika, you know who you’re dealing with. The fish? Not a certainty by any means. Broad strokes and all that. You’re being a reactionary and really should do due-dilligence. I would. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/67 "2008-11-19T18:00:11Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > What kind of impact of having to fear “saying the wrong things” or supporting things not inline with the majority have on Free Speech and freedom of dissension? It’s not new that if you say something that really offends people you will probably face some repercussions from that. This isn’t the government doing the repercussing (probably not a word, but I like it!) and it’s the government that’s involved in first amendment/freedom of speech arguments. What’s new-ish is that the shoe is on the other foot in this particular case. It’s not the religious right-er who is in power. > [@](#): > > Said boss then went through his employee parking lot and fired any employee with an Obama bumper sticker. Would this be okay? Sure it’d be legal in at will states. > > That’s what we have here. An attempt to remove some from a job because they support something you morally condemn that’s unrelated to the job. Is it unrelated to the job if you’re working in the theater and are suddenly known as someone who doesn’t support lgbtq rights? That seems a closer relationship than, say, being a pipefitter who supports Obama. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/68 "2008-11-19T18:05:32Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > But with a swastika, you know who you’re dealing with. > The fish? Not a certainty by any means. Broad strokes and all that. You’re being a reactionary and really should do due-dilligence. I would. Do you know who you’re dealing with? What if I’m Buddhist or something? 卐 卍 The orientation of a swastika can mean a lot. Broad strokes, and all that. I don’t need to do any more due diligence than you do. Put a symbol in your Yellow Page that causes me alarm, don’t expect me to not be alarmed. I don’t have to patronize your business. Only a fool would spend good money putting a symbol on their Yellow Page that could drive business away. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/69 "2008-11-19T18:07:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The guy at the theater voted to take away my civil rights. By boycotting his company, I’m voting to take away his job. > > Seems fair. Which is fine, so long as you realize you are also voting to take away the job of everyone else at the business, whether they are pro-gay marriage or not. And if you are going to counter that only the anti-gay marriage ones should be fired, then apply the same logic to the pro-Obama ones and see if it still flies. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/70 "2008-11-19T18:17:37Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > But with a swastika, you know who you’re dealing with. You might be dealing with Hindus (granted, their swastikas look different than the Nazi ones (I think they always do. Maybe it’s just that they usually do)). What sort of due diligence can be done to check up on a Jesus fish? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/71 "2008-11-19T18:19:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which is fine, so long as you realize you are also voting to take away the job of everyone else at the business, whether they are pro-gay marriage or not. > > And if you are going to counter that only the anti-gay marriage ones should be fired, then apply the same logic to the pro-Obama ones and see if it still flies. As I said, “this time it worked.” The guy resigned, the theater didn’t close, people still have their jobs. Media attention was brought to the issue. Do you think if the religious right boycotts a company they care if someone loses a job? Very un-christian, don’t you think? How many companies actually go bankrupt and lay everyone off as a result of a boycott? Generally, the result is nothing, or the company changes its policies, acquiescing to the boycotters, which would be the point, right? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/72 "2008-11-19T18:51:54Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How many companies actually go bankrupt and lay everyone off as a result of a boycott? Generally, the result is nothing, or the company changes its policies, acquiescing to the boycotters, which would be the point, right? Okay, I see a flaw in my reasoning someone is probably going to point out. Boycotters in this case weren’t trying to change a company’s policies. But, they did expose hypocrisy. This guy donated to take away the rights of friends, coworkers, and family. He reaped what he sowed, which is the righteous outrage of a whole bunch of Californians. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/73 "2008-11-19T19:58:08Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Do you know who you’re dealing with? What if I’m Buddhist or something? > > 卐 > > 卍 > > The orientation of a swastika can mean a lot. Broad strokes, and all that. > > I don’t need to do any more due diligence than you do. Put a symbol in your Yellow Page that causes me alarm, don’t expect me to not be alarmed. I don’t have to patronize your business. > > Only a fool would spend good money putting a symbol on their Yellow Page that could drive business away. FWIW I know the difference between the swastika/fylfot. No broad strokes there. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/74 "2008-11-19T20:00:51Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You might be dealing with Hindus (granted, their swastikas look different than the Nazi ones (I think they always do. Maybe it’s just that they usually do)). > > What sort of due diligence can be done to check up on a Jesus fish? For cryin’ out loud, you call the store and talk to them. I do this routinely if I have questions about a business. Are we now in such an instant-gratification society that a call is too much work? OOOh, they used a suspicious buzzword/symbol - must avoid…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/75 "2008-11-19T20:10:10Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > For cryin’ out loud, you call the store and talk to them. I do this routinely if I have questions about a business. > Are we now in such an instant-gratification society that a call is too much work? > OOOh, they used a suspicious buzzword/symbol - must avoid…:rolleyes: Wow, you’re hyper. The question is, what is supposed to be included in or discovered from such a phone call? What is the exact information that I’m trying to find out? You do due diligence to find out specific information, and you’re acting like that specific information is obvious, but what IS it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/76 "2008-11-19T20:23:09Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] Do you think if the religious right boycotts a company they care if someone loses a job? Very un-christian, don’t you think? [/QUOTE] No more “un-Christian” than secular folks are being immoral when they boycott some company. No doubt the secular folk and the Christians use the same justifications - the benefit overall outweighs the harm to the individuals, people don’t really lose their jobs because of boycotts, ‘you have no business working for an immoral company like that’, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/77 "2008-11-19T20:30:35Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Only a fool would spend good money putting a symbol on their Yellow Page that could drive business away. It’s not foolish. It’s a conscious decision. They’ll drive away some non-Christians, but they also know that some Christians thumbing through the Yellow Pages will automatically select a store with a Jesus fish in the ad over one without. Let me draw a parallel. Let’s say you own a store near Yellowstone National Park that sells outdoor clothing. You’re a big snowmobile fan, and you want to attract other snowmobilers to your store, so you put a picture of a snowmobile in your ads. You know that some environmentalists will not do business with you because of it (there’s a _huge_ controversy over snowmobile pollution and noise in the park), but you do the math and decide (a) you think there are more snowmobilers than environmentalists in your area and (b) you like snowmobilers better anyway. So it makes sense. If you choose not to do business with a store because there’s a Jesus fish in their window, realize that they probably thought it through and decided they’d rather have hard-core Christians shopping at their store than people like you. (Yes, I acknowledge that there are idiot business-owners who don’t think through stuff like that, but I think they constitute a minority, and I’d guess they don’t stay in business that long.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/78 "2008-11-19T21:15:00Z")
If it’s reasonable for a Christian to choose a fish-advertised business over one without, then it’s equally reasonable for a person who dislikes Christians to choose the business without the fish. Obviously the business owner believes the former, or they wouldn’t have the fish in their ad in the first place, so what’s wrong with the latter? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/79 "2008-11-19T22:09:54Z")
There’s nothing at all wrong with it. That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731/80 "2008-11-19T22:17:58Z")
I wasn’t responding to you; I was responding to the same folks you were responding to. We’re in agreement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-a-boycott-justified/472731.md?page=5)