# When is an attempted coup not an attempted coup? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991 "2023-04-20T22:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/81 "2023-04-22T15:58:03Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > What would you say was the percentage of people that day that had “take over the government” as the reason for showing up that day (prior to the rioting) I would guess maybe 5 percent. How many of them thought they would be inside the Capitol that day? I would guess 1 percent. The question isn’t what they thought prior to the rioting, or whether they thought they’d go inside; it’s what they did _during_ the rioting, when they _were_ inside. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/82 "2023-04-22T16:02:11Z")
Having the election results overturned? A lot of them. Doing so via violence if necessary? Less, until Trump and other Republicans got them fired up. And does it matter? If I go to the bank to make a withdrawal, and decide, you know what I didn’t come here to rob the bank, and I certainly didn’t think I would end up inside the vault, but I think I’ll rob the bank, would you say that I didn’t actually rob the bank? This is such a bizarre line of reasoning. When they first got there they didn’t “mean” to have a coup. But there were people who were intending to have a coup and the recruited the others to their cause. And those others did so knowing full well that they were trying to overturn the election, and quite probably murder some Democrats (and that traitor Pence). There’s really no doubt about this. They weren’t there to say “Dear Nancy, we’re quite upset. Sincerely, Little Girl”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/83 "2023-04-22T16:02:53Z")
Boy, if only that one percent had thought to use that fact to their advantage. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/84 "2023-04-22T16:04:35Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > I was so numb to rioting at this point that i wasn’t as concerned at the time as i probably should have been. I can actually understand that. What’s harder to understand is how much we KNOW about 1/6 and everything that gave rise to it, and how people can still equivocate, or “haggle about price.” I meant no disrespect when I suggested that you might benefit from reading that JustSecurity article. Fact-check any and all of it, best you can, if you feel the need. This wasn’t a grass-roots activism event. What it was … was indescribably and almost unimaginably worse. It’s just … complex enough that it takes a conscious effort to get one’s head around it. We keep hearing that **[Fani Willis is considering](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/20/politics/georgia-racketeering-conspiracy-trump-willis/index.html)** indicting people for RICO violations, but that a singular challenge of that approach is how complex and dry those cases can be (for a jury). Half the country has made a conscious choice to not EVEN have half the story. That’s an incredibly dangerous choice for those people to make. Understanding what 1/6 was REALLY about takes some dedication and time, but it IS the only way not to be counted among “those ignorant of history.” ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/85 "2023-04-22T16:05:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The question isn’t what they thought prior to the rioting, or whether they thought they’d go inside; it’s what they did _during_ the rioting, when they _were_ inside. Did you hold the Walmart rioters to the same standards when they claimed to be supporting BLM? When the riots inevitably went from peaceful to violent? I think most of us gave them a pass. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/86 "2023-04-22T16:06:33Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Did you hold the Walmart rioters to the same standards when they claimed to be supporting BLM? When the riots inevitably went from peaceful to violent? I think most of us gave them a pass. I didn’t give anyone a pass. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/87 "2023-04-22T16:06:53Z")
# How does a riot at a Walmart compare to the Capitol building. This is a bullshit comparison and you should know it. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/88 "2023-04-22T16:07:59Z")
1. Few to none supported the crimes committed at the BLM protests, but over 10,000 were arrested and charged for their crimes. It’s tough to create an equivalence, though, between looting the Foot Locker store and trying to overthrow a legitimately elected government, threatening to kill elected officials – including the sitting VP – and having at least the tacit approval, if not the active assistance, of high-ranking government officials. 2. I don’t support ANY criminal activity that took place at the Black Lives Matter protests. But the thing that BLM activists were protesting against … was inarguably real. It’s like one group is protesting against the increased price of gas at the pump while the other group (Big Lie supporters) is protesting against the Easter Bunny. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/89 "2023-04-22T16:09:46Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Did you hold the Walmart rioters to the same standards when they claimed to be supporting BLM? A favorite tune of those with no arguments to make: 🎶 Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout-bout-bout!!?? 🎶 > [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > I think most of us gave them a pass. What you think is immaterial. Bring facts. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/90 "2023-04-22T16:12:36Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > # How does a riot at a Walmart compare to the Capitol building. > > This is a bullshit comparison and you should know it. It’s meant to describe the mob mentality that we agree had some effect on that crowd. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/91 "2023-04-22T16:13:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > > [@penultima\_thule](#): > > > > A. When it fails. Then it becomes a mutiny. > > For consequences, see the [Articles of War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_War). > > That’s a military offense There were a few active-duty military present… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/92 "2023-04-22T16:14:20Z")
But the way you wrote it is a very dishonest form of posting. Maybe add that explanation next time to your initial post or it is just what-aboutism which makes you look like a complete idiot. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/93 "2023-04-22T16:15:00Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Did you hold the Walmart rioters to the same standards when they claimed to be supporting BLM? Yes. Most people said they understood why they were rioting but that it was wrong. That’s very similar to J6. I understand why they decided to attempt a coup, they believed Republican lies, but it was wrong. Of the two, the attempted coup was much worse for a few reasons. One, it was an attempted coup. Two, it was an attempted coup. Three, the attempted coup was based on bullshit as opposed to a legitimate issue. Cops really should stop murdering black men so casually\*1. Four, and this is really important, it was an attempted coup. \*1 They really shouldn’t be murdering anybody so casually but the BLM movement is specifically about bring attention to the overabundance of the murder of black men. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/94 "2023-04-22T16:19:25Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Did you hold the Walmart rioters to the same standards when they claimed to be supporting BLM? Can you point to a single Walmart rioter that claimed to be supporting BLM? I’m not sure these people exist and I think you are conflating two different groups. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/95 "2023-04-22T16:20:15Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > This is a bullshit comparison and you should know i If you have shit for brains, bullshit arguments seem brainy. And if there’s one thing I’ve learned in 20 years online, anyone appealing to “common sense” is operating from a position where it’s obvious that the sun goes around the earth just as the moon does. It’s common sense! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/96 "2023-04-22T16:20:21Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > I was so numb to rioting at this point that i wasn’t as concerned at the time as i probably should have been. Really? How much rioting have you been doing? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/97 "2023-04-22T16:22:59Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > 1. Few to none supported the crimes committed at the BLM protests, but over 10,000 were arrested and charged for their crimes. It’s tough to create an equivalence, though, between looting the Foot Locker store and trying to overthrow a legitimately elected government, threatening to kill elected officials – including the sitting VP – and having at least the tacit approval, if not the active assistance, of high-ranking government officials. > > 2. I don’t support ANY criminal activity that took place at the Black Lives Matter protests. But the thing that BLM activists were protesting against … was inarguably real. It’s like one group is protesting against the increased price of gas at the pump while the other group (Big Lie supporters) is protesting against the Easter Bunny. Good point, good points. The crowd that day thought the election was being stolen (through it turns out, lies). So they had reason to be there. It WAS real for them. Much smaller groups probably knew this but were going to attempt to overturn the election using this (bad) info to their advantage. Add crazy right wing extremists Trump support into the mix and you have what ended up happening. These were not the sharpest knives in the drawer. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/98 "2023-04-22T16:24:15Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > attempt to overturn the election using this (bad) info to their advantage So have we finalized on it was an attempted coup then? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/99 "2023-04-22T16:27:03Z")
In deference to your profession as a sparky, please allow me to quote Volt Air (Voltaire): > Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. This. This is what we have to short-circuit (see what I did there?) in order to prevent the next round of atrocities. I’m working on it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/100 "2023-04-22T16:32:14Z")
OhByTheWay: 1. “Separate channels” (ie, “alternative facts”) is how we got into the Iraq War (“Office of Special Plans”). What a cool thing it would be if we EVER learned from our mistakes as a nation. 2. “But the thought leaders on talk radio and Fox do more than shape opinion. Backed by their own wing of the book-publishing industry and supported by think tanks that increasingly function as public-relations agencies, conservatives have built a whole alternative knowledge system, with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics." . –David Frum, former George W. Bush speechwriter 3. We had a President and a State Media apparatus that put a tremendous amount of time and energy into demonizing the press – a vaunted institution with a tremendous track record for integrity and accuracy. And he/they DID this to create a path for them to manipulate their base with a false narrative. 4. _“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”_ . ― Carl Sagan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991.md?page=6)