# When is an attempted coup not an attempted coup? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991 "2023-04-20T22:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/101 "2023-04-22T16:33:07Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > > [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > > > attempt to overturn the election using this (bad) info to their advantage > > So have we finalized on it was an attempted coup then? I think so, since it was orchestrated from the top down. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/102 "2023-04-22T16:34:03Z")
CLOSE THE THREAD!! 😉 [and characters for Discourse] ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/103 "2023-04-22T16:34:20Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > In deference to your profession as a sparky, please allow me to quote Volt Air (Voltaire): > > > Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. > > This. This is what we have to short-circuit (see what I did there?) in order to prevent the next round of atrocities. > > I’m working on it 😉 Hah, keep it up! ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/104 "2023-04-22T16:34:57Z")
Well, this didn’t go according to plan. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/105 "2023-04-22T16:35:08Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Good point, good points. The crowd that day thought the election was being stolen (through it turns out, lies). So they had reason to be there. It WAS real for them. Who told them it was being stolen? - Liars, known liars. Not a shred of evidence to back it up. They wanted to believe, without facts to back it up. They wanted to overthrow the government. Truth be dammed. > [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Dude, I was so numb to rioting at this point that i wasn’t as concerned at the time as i probably should have been. More thinly disguised ‘Whataboutism’ ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/106 "2023-04-22T16:36:09Z")
Praise Jebus. Now I can stop watching it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/107 "2023-04-22T16:39:28Z")
You do you… ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/108 "2023-04-22T16:40:05Z")
Me too. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/109 "2023-04-22T16:40:30Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > You do you… I do facts. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/110 "2023-04-22T16:47:43Z")
For those still playing the home game … An article – written on 1/8/2021 – from the venerated [**Brookings Institution**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Institution): > **[No, it’s not a coup — It’s a failed ‘self-coup’ that will undermine US...](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/01/08/no-its-not-a-coup-its-a-failed-self-coup-that-will-undermine-us-leadership-and-democracy-worldwide/)** > > Latin America has a history of autogolpes, or “self-coups.” Charles Call explains how that legacy can help explain what has happened in America since the November election. I feel like he had a pretty good handle on it, awfully early on. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/111 "2023-04-22T16:53:03Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Who told them it was being stolen? - Liars, known liars. Not a shred of evidence to back it up. Liars, known liars who **knew full well they were lying.** See the recent depositions from Fox News executives under oath for proof of this statement. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/112 "2023-04-22T16:54:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Liars, known liars who **knew full well they were lying.** And anyone with a brain cell to rub against their cranium knew they were lying. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/113 "2023-04-22T16:55:49Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I feel like he had a pretty good handle on it, awfully early on. I didn’t read the article (I think I did read it back when it was fresh), but the title is dumb as shit. > No, it’s not a coup — It’s a failed ‘self-coup’ that will undermine US leadership and democracy worldwide Self-coups are pretty clearly a subset of coups. It is literally right in the name. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/114 "2023-04-22T16:56:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And anyone with a brain cell to rub against their cranium knew they were lying. Yep. That’s why this whole “Oh, it’s not a coup because the rubes actually believed the lies about a stolen election” is such complete and utter bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/115 "2023-04-22T17:00:21Z")
I understand your point. I think he makes a distinction, though, for a legitimate reason. [**Self-coup**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup) puts TFG _directly at the center of the crime_, eliminating even the possibility of plausible deniability. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/116 "2023-04-22T18:00:22Z")
When is an attempted coup not an attempted coup? When it is successful, of course, the very moment it becomes a glorious heroic pat **riot** ic revolution. That is the moment whataboutism reverses the polarity and the other side has to justify itself (or is simply thrown into jail, what do you think those jails are for?) while the rioters - now **patriot** ers - bask in the adulation of the masses during a never ending victory lap. Confetti! Champagne! Fireworks! [Blow jobs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Kp_eHMQ7s)! ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/117 "2023-04-22T18:14:10Z")
I would guess that close to 100% of them would say that “install Donald Trump as President for another 4 years” was a primary motivation. And they really believed that this was possible, thanks to the concerted efforts of Trump and his co-conspirators. They believed the lies, even though the election wasn’t even particularly close, it was the widest margin in a U.S. Presidential election since Barack Obama’s 2008 victory. And that constitutes an attempted overthrow of the duly elected executive branch of the government. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/118 "2023-04-22T19:45:35Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Nice… Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/119 "2023-04-22T20:13:18Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > > > Nice… > > Go fuck yourself. Feel better? I gave you credit for a clever reply and I get a “Go F Yourself”. Have a great day!! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991/120 "2023-04-22T20:15:37Z")
“I have been unfailingly polite, and you have been nothing but RUDE!” Tell us you’re sealioning without telling us you’re sealioning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-an-attempted-coup-not-an-attempted-coup/982991.md?page=7)