# When is "enough" .... well enough (Minnesota ICE shooting) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 8, 2026, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488 "2026-01-08T21:41:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2026, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/21 "2026-01-09T15:42:48Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Change here needs a significant number of Trump voters to come on board such that there’s pressure on republicans to get out of lockstep with Trump. What does “get on board” mean in this context? Opinion polls, voting, or something else? In other words, how will republican office-holders (as I presume you mean) know when support is moving away from Trump? I ask because I tend to agree that at least regular protesting doesn’t seem to move the needle, but I’m not sure what else to look for. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2026, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/22 "2026-01-09T15:49:25Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Opinion polls, voting, or something else? In other words, how will republican office-holders (as I presume you mean) know when support is moving away from Trump? It’s got to be something a lot more than that, because opinion polls _already_ don’t matter to Trump et al. Trump’s policies are hugely unpopular, with even a large segment of Republican voters opposing a lot of what he’s doing, and yet, none of that has had any effect on the trajectory of their program. The leaders of MAGA know they’re unpopular, even if they won’t admit that publicly, and instead insist that they have a huge mandate from the masses, but they _also_ know that doesn’t matter. They finally have the _power_ to implement their plans, and no opinion poll is going to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/23 "2026-01-09T16:02:07Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I just make a distinction between the 30% or so who love trump _because_ of everything he’s doing and saying, and those who ignore or rationalize the worst of it and convince themselves that somehow it’s not as bad as it seems. There’s no redeeming the former, but I think there’s some possibility to change minds with the latter. I think there is a difference between the groups, but I also think you’re mischaracterizing the “better” group as simply willing themselves to believe it’s not that bad. Recently, the government has become fond of the “FAFO” language, and this is really what that group is looking for. They may not love every single policy thing that Trump is doing, but they do love the way he’s doing it. Because they feel like we are where we are now (wherever that is) because too many people (liberals) are breaking rules and cheating, and we give them too much leniency. In earlier years, these are the folks advocating for harsher criminal sentences. They wonder why we let bad people “get away” with being bad all the time. They are happy to see disorderly people receive the maximum possible suffering. They believe that hordes of criminals and gangs are the primary reason the country has fallen from the relatively tranquil and economically easy era of the 90s. They believe that the government has been prevented from keeping us safe by a small group of corrupt liberal politicians and intellectuals who think they know better than normal folk if someone just needs killin’. And every violent outcome of an interaction with an ever-more-violent government enforcement class just proves that there are dangerous people out there who need to be stopped. My colleague who posted a FAFO meme yesterday is just as much a supporter of the current government path than someone who is talking about evil dems getting their comeuppance. Because at it’s core they are both the same belief. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/24 "2026-01-10T00:31:48Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > They are happy to see disorderly people receive the maximum possible suffering. With a special carve out for the January 6 “patriots”. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/25 "2026-01-10T03:08:01Z")
Well argued. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/26 "2026-01-10T05:44:36Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think 45% of Americans are fascists and of the remainder, about half of them “just doesn’t talk politics;” oddly these craven allies of the fascists think they’re taking the high road. A favorite quote I am reminded of: > Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than ‘politics’. They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters. – Naomi Shulman ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/27 "2026-01-10T07:03:34Z")
I’ve been asking myself when enough is enough since 2016. In 2021, I discovered whatever enough might be, it was apparently a lot more than I could ever believe. I cannot answer when enough is enough. Enough is simply a theoretical limit that I’m no longer sure exists. A significant percentage of Americans are perfectly fine with an unarmed woman being shot in the face three times. I’d really like for this to start a fire under the butts of many Americans. But I have little hope these days. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/28 "2026-01-10T07:12:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > A significant percentage of Americans are perfectly fine with an unarmed woman being shot in the face three times. A significant percentage of Americans think shooting one unarmed woman in the face three times is a slow start. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/29 "2026-01-10T12:38:35Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’d really like for this to start a fire under the butts of many Americans. But I have little hope these days. I agree. I hope that it lights a fire under the rest of the world. Someone needs to stop this and it clearly won’t be Americans. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/30 "2026-01-10T16:19:08Z")
I think “enough” could possibly be reached after the USA does something heinous enough on the world stage that other countries impose sanctions. Cut off food, power, _stuff_ and then, maybe, enough Americans will understand that they don’t have the government they want. But it won’t be because of a new moral awakening, it’ll be because enough of them are cold and hungry and personally affected. I don’t know if attacking Greenland would cross that threshold. In theory, it should, but I worry that the world/NATO will hold back from imposing severe enough sanctions. I don’t want America to hurt, but I think it can only learn when it does, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/31 "2026-01-10T18:20:43Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I don’t want America to hurt, but I think it can only learn when it does, sadly. No, America never learns. See: Vietnam and post Vietnam military adventurism. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/32 "2026-01-11T00:33:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Someone needs to stop this and it clearly won’t be Americans It can only be Americans. No one else has the physical power to stop MAGA, and they won’t stop themselves. Until enough Americans stand up to _make_ them stop, they’ll just keep wallowing in their own crapulence. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/33 "2026-01-11T19:22:24Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It can only be Americans. No one else has the physical power to stop MAGA, and they won’t stop themselves. Until enough Americans stand up to _make_ them stop, they’ll just keep wallowing in their own crapulence. Americans have no capacity to fix this. Half of them are fascists, half of the remainder refuse to see the existential threat that Trumpism presents. Collapse of the US is the best outcome for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/34 "2026-01-11T19:40:59Z")
Then who do you imagine will fix it? Which country will try sending troops, knowing that the largest Navy in the world will be shooting at them the entire way? Who will recruit volunteers to sneak into the US to start a civil war? Best you can hope for are sanctions, which are never enough. If North Korea can live with sanctions for 70 plus years now, the US can survive them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/35 "2026-01-11T19:50:20Z")
You fight America through asymmetrical warfare. We’ve been at war most of my life and lose a lot of them. The Taliban beat us, Iraq beat us, Vietnam beat us and Reagan turned tail and ran from Lebanon after one bombing. Asymmetrical warfare targeting red state America while fostering separatists movements in both red and blue America could have a destabilizing impact. The goal isn’t to beat the US on a battlefield, but help it continue to destroy itself by encouraging implosion. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/36 "2026-01-11T20:15:59Z")
And when the US finds agents from Canuckistan, or wherever, fomenting rebellion in various US states, Canuckistan will be bombed off the face of the Earth. Who will take that risk on behalf of Americans who can’t be arsed to fight for their own interests? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/37 "2026-01-11T20:21:06Z")
I’m not suggesting that the world fight America on our behalf, I’m suggesting the world will have to fight us because we are a global threat akin to Nazi Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/38 "2026-01-11T20:47:00Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > And when the US finds agents from Canuckistan, or wherever, fomenting rebellion in various US states, Canuckistan will be bombed off the face of the Earth. Who will take that risk on behalf of Americans who can’t be arsed to fight for their own interests? half in jest… you nice guys/gals up in Canada are just some relevant person whispering in DJTs ears _“_… _that the worlds largest oil reserves are suspected in Canada (and Canada has no idea) so we need to move fast_ ….” away from being invaded … sad state of affairs in 2026, indeed … ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/39 "2026-01-11T20:52:00Z")
Well, yes, but Canada fighting an insurgency won’t make the US government collapse. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2026, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488/40 "2026-01-12T04:06:29Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Best you can hope for are sanctions, which are never enough. If North Korea can live with sanctions for 70 plus years now, the US can survive them. But putting sanctions on the U.S. is a totally different thing. It’s one thing to starve an ignorant, helpless people. If U.S. society heads to North Korea levels, that’s when the guns come out, all 400 million of them. No, that won’t overthrow the government but you would find out how far the government is willing to go to rule over ashes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-enough-well-enough-minnesota-ice-shooting/1026488.md?page=3)