# When is it alcoholism, and what do you do when it is? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213 "2004-11-29T20:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/1 "2004-11-29T20:58:48Z")
Yup, it’s another problem with my mom. This time I’m worried for her, though. I’ve been suspecting for a long time that my mom has a drinking problem, and has had one for a long time. Ever since I can remember, she’s had to have her two to three martinis in the evening, and normally has a glass or two of wine with dinner. Which may or may not be a big deal, but when she visited me this weekend for Thanksgiving, it was even worse. Around 11 a.m. yesterday, I noticed that she was sipping on a drink. It looked like ice water, but something told me it was gin, so I said, “That ice water looks really good. Do you mind if I have some?” Mom gave me this guilty, sheepish look and said, “Ah, it’s not water.” It _was_ gin. A great big honking glass of gin (my larger glasses can hold about 16 oz, and it was filled more than half way) with a wee little bit of ice, just to make it cold. So after chatting another few moments, I left the room so I could think about what to do. I wanted to tell her to stop drinking it, but wasn’t sure how. I didn’t want to confront her in a way that would make her feel threatened or defensive, because I don’t want her to start lying to me again. So, after I had had a moment to think about what to say, eventually I came back and told her that the fact that she was wandering around with a glass of gin that early made me very concerned. I’ve caught her doing it before, and that time she lied about it. This time, after I mentioned my concern, I hugged her and then I asked her why she drinks during the day, she said, “Oh, well, I’m on vacation, and I like to cut loose.” I asked if she did it very often, and she said no. Then she went on to say that I’m probably right and she shouldn’t be drinking like that during the day and dumped it out, and didn’t do it again. But I don’t trust that she’s not doing it at home when she’s by herself, and I don’t know what, if anything, I should do. But that’s not it. What concerns me the very most is that I know she drinks while she drives. If she has to make a longer car trip (over an hour or so), she puts gin and ice into a 16 oz. stainless steel insulated coffee cup. She says she doesn’t drink it. She gets stressed out very easily and says it’s her “security blanket,” but Jesus - couldn’t she just get a stress ball? Anyway, I think she’s lying about not drinking and driving, and it scares the crap out of me that she might harm herself or someone else because she’s drinking so often and so much. I’m pretty sure these are symptoms of an alcoholic, but most people in my family drink a LOT. It’s not unusual for at large family gatherings to see family members knocking back a couple of Bloody Marys, Mimosas or glasses of wine with brunch around 11 a.m., then at 5 p.m. to having a few cocktails, then a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and a nightcap to top it all off. So, I want help coming to a conclusion. Tell me: is my mom potentially alcoholic, is my entire family alcoholic, or am I just a paranoid twit? If the first thing is true (or the second, but that seems a bit more than I can handle), what the heck do I do? Has anyone out there handled something like this? ---
**Author:** ![taxi78cab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47c2d/32.png) [@taxi78cab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taxi78cab)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/2 "2004-11-29T21:05:18Z")
{{{ **overlyverbose** }}} I don’t have any answers or suggestions but I wanted to say I’m thinking about you and your mother. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/3 "2004-11-29T21:13:28Z")
It does sound like a problem. The red flags I see are lying about drinking (or hiding it, or avoiding mentioning it, whatever), drinking alone, and driving while drinking. What to do? Well, it depends on how involved you want to get. You can distance yourself and not allow anyone you know to get into a car with her (especially if you have kids). You can confront her and it won’t be pretty. What’s her insurance like? Is a treatment program available, affordable, feasible? AA has helped a lot of people. Al-Anon is a good group for people who live with alcoholism in their families, whether they themselves are the alcoholic or just related to one. If she won’t go to AA, get her to an Al-Anon meeting and she may begin to realize that her behavior is not normal. Or psychotherapy/mediation is an alternative as well, to at least try to convince her this is a serious problem. It is better to do something about it now, than to wait until a tragedy happens that she has to live with for the rest of her life. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/4 "2004-11-29T21:23:55Z")
Well, is she negating her responsibilities? If not (and I hate to put it so bluntly) I think maybe you should mind your own business. Especialy since this was a holiday. The time of day really has no relevance as far as I’m concerned. Hell, I’ve been known to kick back a few early in the morn. As far as the drinking and driving thing goes; I understand your concern but this is a conscious decision your Mother makes as an adult. Right or wrong it’s her perogative as I’m SURE she already knows the dangers involved with drinking and driving. But anyway I think you’ve done exactly right so far. You’ve expressed your concern and I’d leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![partlycloudy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/partlycloudy/32/3114_2.png) [@partlycloudy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partlycloudy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/5 "2004-11-29T22:26:31Z")
I think you have every right to be concerned. This is your mother, after all, and she seems to acknowledge the fact that she has a problem (a guilty, sheepish look; lying about it). More red flags I see: family history of alcohol abuse, perhaps? And using alcohol as a “security blanket,” or to relieve stress. What’s so stressful about driving anyway?? I say talk to her about it. See if _she_ thinks she has a problem. Of course, she might not be honest, so you might want to try asking her without forcing her to give _you_ an answer. Say something like, “you don’t have to tell _me_ this, but it’s something I want you to think about.” > [@SHAKES](#): > > I understand your concern but this is a conscious decision your Mother makes as an adult. Right or wrong it’s her perogative as I’m SURE she already knows the dangers involved with drinking and driving. Seriously?? And if **overlyverbose** ’s mother does have a problem with alcohol abuse, you think her judgement isn’t clouded by the addiction? _Most_ people are fully aware of the dangers of drinking and driving, but a lot of people do it anyway. IMO, overlyverbose not only has a _right_ to say something about it, but a moral obligation to do so. Once she’s on the road, it’s no longer her prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/6 "2004-11-29T22:31:47Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not unusual for at large family gatherings to see family members knocking back a couple of Bloody Marys, Mimosas or glasses of wine with brunch around 11 a.m., then at 5 p.m. to having a few cocktails, then a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and a nightcap to top it all off. This is not heavy drinking. You’ll note that the consumption of alcohol is in a social setting and with food. As for your mother, I think you’re right to be concerned. I’m just going to say that I used to do work for my local fire brigade (IT, not as a fireman) and I’ve seen pictures of some _really_ nasty car accidents. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/7 "2004-11-29T23:00:10Z")
Server at my post. The short, unprofessional answer is your Mom is predisposed toward being an alcoholic. I recommend an $89 [AlcoMate Digital Breathalyzer](http://www.breathalyzer.net/ca2000.html) as a stocking stuffer. It’s a subtle way of telling your Mom she should be driving under the influence - even if she can’t get her drinking under control. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/8 "2004-11-29T23:23:05Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > Around 11 a.m. yesterday, I noticed that she was sipping on a drink… A great big honking glass of gin Eight ounces of gin before lunch, on more than one occasion =\> near-certain alcoholic. > [@](#): > > If she has to make a longer car trip (over an hour or so), she puts gin and ice into a 16 oz. stainless steel insulated coffee cup. She says she doesn’t drink it. But of course she does. You have more than enough evidence here to be sure that your mom need help. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/9 "2004-11-30T00:00:56Z")
With my patients, I use a screening instrument called the CAGE: Have you ever thought you should cut down on your drinking? Have you ever felt annoyed by others’ criticism of your drinking? Have you ever felt guilty about your drinking? Do you drink as an eye-opener (morning drinking)? If people answer “yes” to two of these, there is a pretty high probablity they have a problem with alcohol. Alcoholism is not about the amount one drinks so much as their continuing to drink despite the consequences to their health, work, or social life, or to take risks that one would not ordinarily take. In your mom’s case, the alcohol in the car is a HUGE red flag. I assume that she drinks it, but even if she doesn’t, that isn’t normal behavior. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/10 "2004-11-30T02:38:15Z")
I’m averaging two Bloody Marys pretty much daily (but over the holiday, I went completely without from Thursday until Sunday night) and that roughly consists of 1/2 cup of vodka. And yes, I sometimes drink alone and feel I should cut down, especially with costs being a factor, even with the extra super duper cheap stuff. As far as anyone complaining about it really, just the StbEH (soon-to-be ex-husband) and my mother from a purely puritanical viewpoint. Lastly, I have a highly addictive personality. Anything else I need to consider, fire away. So, does this qualify or something? If so, I’ve got to get a handle on it before it is so completely full blown that I can’t deal with it. Thank you. And I’m sorry for hijacking your thread **overlyverbose**. It’s just that I didn’t have enough nerve to start this on my own and I had no idea where else to ask. Here’s to hoping your mom gets what she needs soon. My heart goes out to you both. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/11 "2004-11-30T03:21:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > This is not heavy drinking. You’ll note that the consumption of alcohol is in a social setting and with food. > > As for your mother, I think you’re right to be concerned. I’m just going to say that I used to do work for my local fire brigade (IT, not as a fireman) and I’ve seen pictures of some _really_ nasty car accidents. I’m going to have to disagree with you, Quartz. Five to seven drinks in one day - which is what Overlyverbose described - is heavy drinking. The difference is whether this is an ordinary occasion (how often does the family get together?) or something much less common. The more often they drink that much, the more likely they are to be alcoholics. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/12 "2004-11-30T03:29:16Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > With my patients, I use a screening instrument called the CAGE: > > Have you ever thought you should cut down on your drinking? > > Have you ever felt annoyed by others’ criticism of your drinking? > > Have you ever felt guilty about your drinking? > > Do you drink as an eye-opener (morning drinking)? > > If people answer “yes” to two of these, there is a pretty high probablity they have a problem with alcohol. Alcoholism is not about the amount one drinks so much as their continuing to drink despite the consequences to their health, work, or social life, or to take risks that one would not ordinarily take. In your mom’s case, the alcohol in the car is a HUGE red flag. I assume that she drinks it, but even if she doesn’t, that isn’t normal behavior. I’d have thought that only Qu 4 was meaningful - it’s objective, while the rest have to do with feelings. Qus 1-3 would also catch individuals with a predisposition towards guilt. Is there a correlation between guilt and alcoholism? Are you a medical doctor or a therapist of some kind? ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/13 "2004-11-30T04:26:11Z")
**roger thornhill** , I am a psychologist. I work in a medical setting with patients who have spinal cord injuries. Although I see them for adjustment to their injuries, they often have substance abuse problems (which is often what led to their SCI), so that is why I know a bit about the CAGE. It is a widely-used screen for problems with alcohol. Unfortunately, there is no one-size-fits all test or questionnaire for substance abuse, but it is a handy screen. Here’s a link if you are interested: [http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ems/alcohol\_screening/Overview.html](http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ems/alcohol_screening/Overview.html) ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/14 "2004-11-30T04:30:41Z")
Also, see this link for a nifty, official DSM (Diagnositic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, the Bible for psychologists and psychiatrists when it comes to diagnosis) definition for substance abuse and its pal, substance dependence. [http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subabuse.htm](http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subabuse.htm) I know how to do the cute links, honest. I am just too tired, despite my damned insomnia, to figure them out right now. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/15 "2004-11-30T04:40:11Z")
Allow me, Brynda. 1. (At non-SDMB website) Copy the URL you want to be you cite. 2. (At SDMB) Decide which word or phrase you want to be your link, and stop typing at that point. 3. Click the “globe” icon (mouseover instruction reads “Insert hyperlink”). 4. Type the word or phrase that you want to be the link, and click “Okay”. 5. Paste the URL (from #1), and click “Okay”. [Optional - click “Preview” and click your desired link to check it works.] PS I’ll follow up the links when I’m sober!! ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/16 "2004-11-30T06:17:32Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > As far as the drinking and driving thing goes; I understand your concern but this is a conscious decision your Mother makes as an adult. Right or wrong it’s her perogative as I’m SURE she already knows the dangers involved with drinking and driving. You mean the danger of killing someone else because of her delayed reactions and impaired response? I wouldn’t have thought it was ‘her perogative’ to endanger other people through reckless and selfish behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/17 "2004-11-30T06:30:11Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > With my patients, I use a screening instrument called the CAGE: > > Have you ever thought you should cut down on your drinking? > > Have you ever felt annoyed by others’ criticism of your drinking? > > Have you ever felt guilty about your drinking? > > Do you drink as an eye-opener (morning drinking)? Funnily enough, Q4 looks like the worst one, and yet it’s the only one I’d say ‘yes’ to. I drink rarely and in small quantities, yet oddly enough if I actually feel like alcohol it’ll be a desire for midori and lemonade first thing in the morning. Not sure why that’d be, but maybe it’s a blood sugar thing? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/18 "2004-11-30T06:54:17Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Well, is she negating her responsibilities? If not (and I hate to put it so bluntly) I think maybe you should mind your own business. Especialy since this was a holiday. > > The time of day really has no relevance as far as I’m concerned. Hell, I’ve been known to kick back a few early in the morn. > > As far as the drinking and driving thing goes; I understand your concern but this is a conscious decision your Mother makes as an adult. Right or wrong it’s her perogative as I’m SURE she already knows the dangers involved with drinking and driving. > > But anyway I think you’ve done exactly right so far. You’ve expressed your concern and I’d leave it at that. **SHAKES** , my lad, you are a compass that, infallibly, points south. By all means continue to give advice; it’s highly useful. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/19 "2004-11-30T09:06:53Z")
Well, there’s always an intervention. I’ve gotta tell you, though. She will not get help until she hits rock bottom. You can cry, beg, plead, intervene, whatever. Until a drunk wants to change, they won’t. And some people, like my father, will never hit rock bottom. In my situation, I had to walk away. I could do that, though, because I hardly had gotten to know him before he started drinking again (he’d been sober for over a year). It was still devastating, but it’s not like I had history with him. One thing I can suggest to you is reading the [AA Big Book](http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/). This book helped me enormously after everything blew up with my dad, and made me realize that my dad’s problem existed before I was ever born, and even having a second chance to have a daughter wasn’t going to keep him from drinking – and that it wasn’t my fault. Good readin’. Bill W. walked with the angels. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/20 "2004-11-30T09:37:59Z")
Recovering alcoholic here. Anyway, it sounds like your Mom might have a problem. Here is the AA questionaire. [http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/publications/areyou.htm](http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/publications/areyou.htm) You may want to send her that link or give her a copy. As **Abbie Carmichael** said, alcoholics have to hit the bottom before they will do something about the problem. The bottom is different for every person. If your Mom is an alcoholic there isn’t a great deal you can do until she decides she wants to quit and is willing to accept help. If I were you I would tell your Mom a couple of things. 1) No drinking during visits. This can be hard during family gatherings. If you have kids 2) absolutely no drinking around the kids. If she won’t do this then the kids don’t visit. 3)If she insists on driving with alcohol tell her you will inform the police any time she does so. This is for her protection and that of those that might get hurt if there is an accident. Slee [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213.md?page=2)