# When is it alcoholism, and what do you do when it is? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213 "2004-11-29T20:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Cloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@Little\_Cloud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/21 "2004-11-30T11:41:20Z")
Oh yes, I do believe your Mom is an alcoholic. The good news is that she does **not** have to hit rock bottom to get help. The bad news is that she is unlikely to accept help until someone applies what we in the business call “therapeutic leverage”. In the case of my Mom, after decades of talking about it, I made my move during an alcoholic health crisis she suffered. She had drawn up a durable power-of-attorney for me when she made out a will. Before she left the hospital after the crisis, I had to threaten to sell her house out from under her unless she went to rehab (I wouldn’t have really done it, but that is neither here nor there). Then I paid for the rehab and accompanied her there. She was **really** pissed at me for about six months. As the fog lifted and her life improved, we became very close and she became very grateful. You need to find your own leverage and muster up the guts to apply it. How old is your Mom? Older women often drink themselves into alcoholism out of lonliness. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/22 "2004-11-30T11:49:18Z")
Overly, yes, I think your Mom is an alcoholic. But then, so’s mine, and she barely drinks… but she should not drink at all; she’s been on heavy meds for a long time and takes half a dozen pills daily, so her liver just can’t take it. She starts slurring words on the second cup of champagne. My youngest brother is what is called here a “weekend alcoholic”: he doesn’t touch the stuff at home or meals, not even banquets, but when he goes out to bars he drinks heavily, gets drunk pretty much every time. My other bro (married to a doctor) and me don’t keep any alcohol in our houses except for what comes in bottles of cologne. We will sometimes buy some for cooking, but always the smallest possible size so it doesn’t hang around. Mom knows that if she’s visiting she can’t have “just a bit of wine”, no wine in the house. When we’re at her house and I hear her slurring, I just take away all the small glasses (the rest of us may be drinking grape juice). If she was the only one with a small glass, she glares, but the rest of us just give her this “whaaaaaaaat?” look and she just pouts. She _knows_ it’s bad for her. I can’t really give you any advice, but I think the general idea is to let her know that you’ve noticed, love her, are worried that she’s hurting herself… while staying as non-confrontational as possible. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/23 "2004-11-30T15:31:48Z")
Thank you very much for all your comments. In answer to your question, **Little Cloud,** my mom is 59 and lives by herself in a very large house. Most of her friends are married, and both of her daughters are married and live away from home. I think that her drinking might have a lot to do with lonliness, or even boredom. She has gotten a part-time job for the boredom. Even though she doesn’t need to work if she doesn’t feel like it, she enjoys it and it gets her out of the house. She’s pretty active otherwise, too, which is good, but I think she could probably use a little male companionship. She divorced my dad when we were two. He was abusive and she never remarried. She did date a few times, and she’s commented that she would like to have “someone.” And, **faithfool** , don’t worry about the hijack. While I’m not exactly the greatest person to give advice, I’d say that it’s good that you’ve noticed you have an addictive personality. At least that way you might be more conscious of any problems you might have, and it doesn’t sound like you’ve got a problem yet, though your concern for yourself might in and of itself be a reason for concern. (Does that make sense?) Anyway, the advice and links above that others have provided have been incredibly helpful so far. At least reading about it has helped calm me down a little bit so now I can think. I hope they help you, too. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/24 "2004-11-30T15:50:26Z")
I’m the former husband of an alcoholic. We were married for 14 years. I’ve personally rationalized, tolerated, begged, pleaded, threatened, screamed, shut up, and cried in every possible combination. What finally got me to the place I needed to be with respect to my then-spouse’s alcoholism was Al-Anon. It is a group dedicated to improving the condition of those people who have an alcoholic in their lives. I’m a strong advocate of the program and I’d urge you to seek it out. There are those who don’t agree with the 12-step process, and that’s their perogative. I don’t want to turn this into an Al-Anon forum, and I’m not going to get on a soap box; however, it helped me tremendously and I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have. You can direct them to me here, or you can e-mail me. Your mother’s problem does not have to be your problem and there is help available. My best wishes for you. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/25 "2004-11-30T16:11:06Z")
Another addictive personality checking in with a slight hijack : After a thread some months ago I realised that I myself have become or am becoming an alcoholic. I had stopped after this, but after a few weeks I really, really felt like having a drink. I did however severely cut back my intake. I still drink about 3 whiskey and cokes per evening (used to be about 5 and not every evening), and don’t binge in the weekends anymore. (I used to drink about half a liter on Friday’s and Saturday’s). I know this is not healthy, but how bad is this? Can you lead a normal life as a borderline alcoholic? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/26 "2004-11-30T16:21:44Z")
I hate to say this, but it absolutely doesn’t matter whether she does or doesn’t meet the criteria for an alcohol problem if she’s not willing to face up to it. The only thing you can do is to tell her you’re worried about her and suggest she seeks help. Being a medical student in Ireland I’ve seen a LOT of patients with alcohol problems, and there is NOTHING you can do if she doesn’t want help, other than refusing to have alcohol in the house when she visits, and refusing to get in a car if she’s driving. I’ve seen people give up spontaneously, I’ve seen people give up after rehab, but I have NEVER seen someone be forced to give up if they didn’t want to, and I’ve seen plenty of people, who want to quit, relapse. Giving up drink is not the same as a short term detox, it’s a long term thing which might mean giving up friends, social activities and never going to certain places…and you can’t do that without being motivated. If your mother asks for help, make sure that she gets it, and if she does decide to detox, make sure she does it under medical supervision, or at least with her family doctor’s knowledge and approval. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/27 "2004-11-30T16:44:01Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > Another addictive personality checking in with a slight hijack : > > After a thread some months ago I realised that I myself have become or am becoming an alcoholic. > I had stopped after this, but after a few weeks I really, really felt like having a drink. > I did however severely cut back my intake. > I still drink about 3 whiskey and cokes per evening (used to be about 5 and not every evening), and don’t binge in the weekends anymore. (I used to drink about half a liter on Friday’s and Saturday’s). > I know this is not healthy, but how bad is this? > Can you lead a normal life as a borderline alcoholic? I’m not an alcholism expert, but if drinking alcohol weren’t important to you and you realised that you were in danger you would quit, not just cut back to “about 3 whiskey and cokes per evening.” The chances of maintaining such a regimen indefinitely are just two: Slim and none - to use an old joke. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/28 "2004-11-30T17:00:45Z")
**overlyverbose** , thank you for your reply. Just don’t want this to spiral completely out of control, like so many other things in my life. So I’ll definitely keep an eye (and budget) on it. And to reiterate, best wishes. I’m sure many of us will be thinking of y’all in the days ahead and sending out good vibes. {{{ **overlyverbose** }}} ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/29 "2004-11-30T17:24:25Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > Thank you very much for all your comments. > > In answer to your question, **Little Cloud,** my mom is 59 and lives by herself in a very large house. \ She did date a few times, and she’s commented that she would like to have “someone.” Now _there’s_ something you could do to help her with the loneliness. Many elderly people are hesitant, reluctant, and don’t know how to start to try to meet someone through dating agencies, personal ads, or dating websites like [match.com](http://match.com). I’ve known of a few daughters/sons Including myself) who put a nice personal ad in the paper for their moms. We didn’t tell our moms about it untill we presented them with the envelope with replies. Usually, mom wil first be royally pissed off, but then her curiosity wil get the better of her and she’ll read the letters. In every cases I know of, it gave the moms an enormous boost and opened their eyes to the fact that there are still possibilities, at ANY age. She’ll thank you later. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/30 "2004-11-30T17:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > If she has to make a longer car trip (over an hour or so), she puts gin and ice into a 16 oz. stainless steel insulated coffee cup. She says she doesn’t drink it. She gets stressed out very easily and says it’s her “security blanket,” but Jesus - couldn’t she just get a stress ball? If your mother needs to have gin with her when she drives more than an hour, she’s an alcoholic. It is not normal to need alcohol in the car when you drive. She is dependant on alcohol. That’s what alcoholism is. ---
**Author:** ![Racer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee59a6/32.png) [@Racer1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Racer1)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/31 "2004-11-30T20:41:16Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Here is the AA questionaire. > > [http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/publications/areyou.htm](http://www.aa-uk.org.uk/publications/areyou.htm) I understand where they are coming from with that questionnaire, but am I the only one who finds it slightly alarmist in its approach to calculating the results? Especially when they use phrases like “Have you ever…” rather than “In the last \*\*\*\*, have you ever…” so it counts things a 57 year old did aged 18. I mean, most of the people I know are around the 20-27 age bracket, and I don’t think a single one could answer that questionnaire without answering “yes” twice. Take one person who had never drunk before in their life. They go to an office Xmas party one night, and foolishly get very drunk. Now they could potentially score a yes in, say, questions 4, 5 and 17 and be classed as “definitely an alcoholic” by that questionnaire even if they never drank again in their life. Maybe the point is to shock people, but by those rules there would be very few non-alcoholics around! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Cloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@Little\_Cloud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/32 "2004-11-30T21:11:19Z")
I know I’m repeating myself but people keep saying she has to really want to stop and be willing to do so. That fallacy kills people. A smart man once once said that, while it is true you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink; you **can** lead a horse to water and make him thirsty. Many people enter recovery due to the threatened loss of a job or something else they value highly. That is the idea behind therapeutic leverage. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/33 "2004-11-30T21:31:53Z")
This post is probably going to make me sound obnoxious, sanctimonious and generally a bore - however, I’m going to post it anyway. If you’re mother is drinking and driving, and WORSE _ **PLANNING** _ to drink and drive, you need to call the police, give them her plate number and car description, and the particulars (ie - she’s diving the two hours to my house, along highway 7 on Tuesday), and let them bust her ass. Sorry - old ladies drinking themselves into a stupor before noon are none of my business or concern. However, if they get behind the wheel in that condition, they deserve to go to jail, or at the very least lose their license. Period. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/34 "2004-11-30T22:01:02Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > This post is probably going to make me sound obnoxious, sanctimonious and generally a bore - however, I’m going to post it anyway. > > If you’re mother is drinking and driving, and WORSE _ **PLANNING** _ to drink and drive, you need to call the police, give them her plate number and car description, and the particulars (ie - she’s diving the two hours to my house, along highway 7 on Tuesday), and let them bust her ass. > > Sorry - old ladies drinking themselves into a stupor before noon are none of my business or concern. However, if they get behind the wheel in that condition, they deserve to go to jail, or at the very least lose their license. > > Period. :mad: Alice\_in\_wonderland is right. Your mother did not become an alcoholic because she is a bad person. But she **will** become a bad person because she is an alcoholic, I promise you. For many people, it is a long, slow, slippery slide down a nasty hill. And it is alcohol that will pull you down that hill. Your mother will lie to you. She will sneak drinks. She will hide her empty bottles. She may kill someone on her way home from a ‘social gathering.’ Read the book Adult Children of Alcoholics. What an eye-opener that was for me! I grew up thinking that it was normal for your parents to starting drinking Friday night and not stop until Monday. I was about 23 before I realized most families do not drink themselves into a collective stupor from Thanksgiving until New Years. But I digress… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/35 "2004-11-30T22:10:47Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I’m going to have to disagree with you, Quartz. Five to seven drinks in one day - which is what Overlyverbose described - is heavy drinking. 5-7 drinks spread over one day? You must be kidding! If it were every day, then yes, but on family gatherings - which I assume are at least infrequent if not few and far between - and with food to boot, that’s nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/36 "2004-12-01T00:38:51Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > they deserve to go to jail, or at the very least lose their license. I agree, but want to point out that losing one’s license never stops anyone from driving. Didn’t stop my dad, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213/37 "2004-12-01T07:38:57Z")
> [@CBCD](#): > > Read the book Adult Children of Alcoholics. What an eye-opener that was for me! I grew up thinking that it was normal for your parents to starting drinking Friday night and not stop until Monday. I was about 23 before I realized most families do not drink themselves into a collective stupor from Thanksgiving until New Years. But I digress… If you google “adult children of alcoholics” you’ll also find a fair number of websites with information, shared experiences and resources. Some better then others, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-alcoholism-and-what-do-you-do-when-it-is/277213.md?page=1)