# When is it OK to hate Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895 "2005-02-19T16:20:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/61 "2005-02-20T23:22:25Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Probably the most broadly accepted Republican properties are: > Lower taxes. > Smaller government. > Less reliance on the government. > The private sector is better at most things than the government. > A general aversion for socialized medicine. Or just about any other aspect of the economy. > Pro school vouchers. > Other things like abortion, gay marriage or separation of church and state are more descriptive of where you stand in regard to being a liberal, moderate, or conservative. It’s funny because the current administration has grown government and corporations are increasingly dependent on government handouts. Pro school vouchers and what you call “other things” betray a poor commitment to core constitional values like the separation of church and state and individual or state rights. The Republicans aren’t Republicans anymore. They’re big-spending, big government, and anti-freedom. Unfortunately, a lot of people are still too goddamned stupid to see that, or are more into hating gays and Arabs to wonder what their core values really are. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/62 "2005-02-20T23:23:38Z")
If the Pubbies succeed in gutting Social Security, I’m sure there’ll be a lot of “You can’t hold us ALL responsible for the actions of a few fanatical Republican leaders” but I don’t think anybody’ll listen. I don’t think anyone should. As for the fact that Bush hasn 't destroyed any civil rights, if a man fires a gun at you and misses, should you think him a better person than someone who has better aim? (To be honest, I don’t think Bush is out to destroy civil rights for their own sake, I just don’t think he gives a shit about them. Like most rich folks, he’s well aware that such things don’t apply to HIM. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/63 "2005-02-20T23:32:21Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > If the Pubbies succeed in gutting Social Security, I’m sure there’ll be a lot of “You can’t hold us ALL responsible for the actions of a few fanatical Republican leaders” but I don’t think anybody’ll listen. I don’t think anyone should. Nah, they’ll just find a way to blame it on Jimmy Carter or Michael Moore. It won’t matter how erroneous it is, since Republican voters are complete lacking in reflectiveness and intellectual inquiry of the sort that isn’t looking at ways to shift blame and make excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/64 "2005-02-21T02:57:16Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Preventative war > Torture > Larger government > Intrusions on individual rights > Global warming > Party power over competent leadership Preventative war - The authorization to use force, given to Bush by Congress, was given by both Democrats and Republicans. Torture - It’s still being investigated how far up the chain of command it went. And even if it gets to Rumsfeld or even Bush himself, it would be a Bush Administration thing, not a Republican thing. Larger government - This, again, is a Bush Administration thing. Republicans are supposed to be about smaller government, less taxation, and less spending. Yeah, he pushed through some tax cuts, but that’s about it. After Republicans took over both the House and Senate, about 10 or 11 years ago, we had a balanced budget. Bush ruined that. Intrusions on individual rights - Debatable, and if you’re talking about the Patriot Act, it either wouldn’t have gotten approved, or would have been a hell of a lot harder to approve, if the Democrats had stood united against it. Global warming - Yeah, well, you got us. We want the planet to get hotter and hotter until human life can no longer be supported. Damn, we thought we could sneak that one past you, but it looks like you’re too cleaver for us. Party power over competent leadership - You’ll have to give me some examples, but in general, that sort of thing is more of a politician thing, and is done by both Republicans and Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/65 "2005-02-21T03:06:07Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > It’s funny because the current administration has grown government and corporations are increasingly dependent on government handouts. Pro school vouchers and what you call “other things” betray a poor commitment to core constitional values like the separation of church and state and individual or state rights. > > The Republicans aren’t Republicans anymore. They’re big-spending, big government, and anti-freedom. Unfortunately, a lot of people are still too goddamned stupid to see that, or are more into hating gays and Arabs to wonder what their core values really are. In my opinion, the Bush administration != Republican party. Although I will admit that there are probably plenty of Republicans who give Bush a pass on a lot of things, simply because they like having controll over both Congress and the White House, and would like to maintain that control, even if it means having Bush as president. Kind of like how Kerry didn’t really have support of his own, but instead had a lot of people voting for him, simply because “He isn’t Bush.” Also, please explain what you mean by > [@](#): > > Pro school vouchers and what you call “other things” betray a poor commitment to core constitional values like the separation of church and state and individual or state rights. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/66 "2005-02-21T04:18:35Z")
[NY Lawyer Says Client Is Artist, Not Bioterrorist](http://www.nylawyer.com/news/05/02/020305d.html) [U.S cites cryptic threats to limit identifying witnesses in terror trial](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-cterror08feb08,0,5067300.story?coll=sfla-news-broward) [Verdict in Lynne Stewart case shakes legal community](http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--terrortrial0211feb11,0,3373649.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork) [who can trust any law enforced by John Ashcroft, who single-handedly transformed a two-bit hubcap thief like Jose Padilla first into a threat to national security and then, through his insistence that Padilla, an American citizen, could be held without charges, into a Constitutional crisis?](http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=300) [Hatfill lawsuit continues](http://www.legaline.com/2004_12_01_medialaw_archive.html) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/67 "2005-02-21T05:53:09Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Do you honestly claim that anyone who charts a different course than yours, by whatever extended label–Republican, Libertarian, Not-Liberal-Enough-for-TRUE-Democrat–therefore acts ‘willfully, intentionally and deliberately’ toward evil? Funny, I didn’t write any such claim. Perhaps you should read the words I put down instead of listening to the voices in your head. As for willfully and deliberately doing evil, I still maintain that deliberately starting a war using false pretenses has to be on the Top Ten List of Evil Things That A Man Can Do™. And it reflects very poorly on the GOP that they would embrace such a person wholeheartedly as a candidate… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/68 "2005-02-21T12:06:16Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Also, please explain what you mean by > > Thank you. Well, pro school vouchers quite obviously are a scheme to get taxpayers to subsidize religious education. Overall, the “family values” crowd opposes individual rights – whether it’s women or homosexuals or athiests. This doesn’t even get into the post 9/11 assault on freedom in the guise of national security. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/69 "2005-02-21T14:47:00Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Being a member of the Republican party is tacit acceptance of their policies. If you believe their policies are vile, shouldn’t it be ok to hate those who enable their policies to come to fruition? Anyone who sent money to George W. Bush helped enable his gay bashing, war mongering, civil rights destroying policies to continue. I completely agree. That’s why I’m a liberal who isn’t a member of the Democratic Party. Some of their mandates make me cringe. Blind allegeance to anything you don’t personally support is wrong. **TVeblen** , I don’t think bringing up conservative principles is necessarily useful until there are actually Republican leaders that follow them. Right now it seems like true believers are disgusted with their own party and jumping onto the libertarian bandwagon, which… too soon to tell if that will bolster or hurt the Libertarians. It hurt the Republicans in previous elections, but Bush was enough of a centrist (despite the people _around_ him) to do some repairs, electorally. Hate makes people blind. Terrorists and Democrats alike. I know foul, racist people who vote for Kerry and support things like gay marriage, and I don’t welcome that support. I don’t think Republicans should welcome the support of people like Ann Coulter, but I’m more interested in cleaning my own house. I don’t think we should be using hate as a tactic because it’s _useful_. What is it they say about using the weapons of your enemy that’s doomed to fail? > [@Evil](#): > > To be honest, I don’t think Bush is out to destroy civil rights for their own sake, I just don’t think he gives a shit about them. I concur. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/70 "2005-02-21T15:44:39Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > Hate makes people blind. Terrorists and Democrats alike. I know foul, racist people who vote for Kerry and support things like gay marriage, and I don’t welcome that support. I don’t think Republicans should welcome the support of people like Ann Coulter, but I’m more interested in cleaning my own house. I don’t think we should be using hate as a tactic because it’s _useful_. What is it they say about using the weapons of your enemy that’s doomed to fail? Nicely said! I’m reminded of a quote: “There’s nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.” — Daniel Dennett ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/71 "2005-02-21T15:55:04Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Are the Republicans worthy of hatred? What have they done to deserve it, and is what they have done extreme enough to deserve hatred? This could probably be its own thread, I’ll just list a few of my flash points: warmongering, stealing elections, bigotry, racism, disregard bordering on contempt for the poor and the disadvantaged, disregard bordering on contempt for the environment. Just for starters. All of those are traits of Democrats, not Republicans. You’ve gotten mixed up somewhere along the way. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/72 "2005-02-21T20:31:31Z")
Thanks for the report from Bizarro World, **Clothahump.** Now, how about joining us in _this_ one? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/73 "2005-02-21T20:37:51Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Kind of like being an American. Nobody was born a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/74 "2005-02-21T21:15:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > All of those are traits of Democrats, not Republicans. You’ve gotten mixed up somewhere along the way. Thanks for the reminder. Republicans also tell bald-faced lies a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/75 "2005-02-21T22:50:22Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Thanks for the reminder. Republicans also tell bald-faced lies a lot. Although the image of an untruthful glabrous complexion is metaphorically interesting, it’s [bold-faced lie](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bold-faced). ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/76 "2005-02-22T01:47:55Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Well, pro school vouchers quite obviously are a scheme to get taxpayers to subsidize religious education. No, not really. See, the way the current system works, is that the government takes money from us and uses it to pay for public schools. The idea behind school vouchers is that parents decided themselves which school their money goes to. So if they want to support a public school, they can. If they want to support a private school, they can, and if yes, they could even send their child to a religious school, but it wouldn’t be government subsidization of a religious school, it would be allowing individual parents the right to choose which school their child goes to. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/77 "2005-02-22T01:51:55Z")
After just watching _Bush’s Brain_ for the first time, I would say that it is okay to hate Republicans as long as that’s what Karl Rove calls himself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/78 "2005-02-22T01:57:50Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > No, not really. See, the way the current system works, is that the government takes money from us and uses it to pay for public schools. The idea behind school vouchers is that parents decided themselves which school their money goes to. So if they want to support a public school, they can. If they want to support a private school, they can, and if yes, they could even send their child to a religious school, but it wouldn’t be government subsidization of a religious school, it would be allowing individual parents the right to choose which school their child goes to. They have no such right to make that choice with my money. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/79 "2005-02-22T14:08:26Z")
Good lord, does anyone really think that just because someone votes Democrat that they are neccessarily in favor of legal abortions? Or allowing same-sex marriages? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/80 "2005-02-22T15:51:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Although the image of an untruthful glabrous complexion is metaphorically interesting, it’s [bold-faced lie](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bold-faced). [It’s either, actually.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bald-faced) > [@kidchameleon](#): > > Good lord, does anyone really think that just because someone votes Democrat that they are neccessarily in favor of legal abortions? Or allowing same-sex marriages? It’s not what you believe anymore. These days you get equated with the most reprehensible-sounding person who shares any one of your beliefs, no matter what else differentiates you from them. At least, if you’re not a conservative. E.g. if you were against invading Iraq, you were “objectively pro-Saddam”. If you dislike Bush, you must be in love with Michael Moore, and suddenly it’s your responsibility to disavow anything Michael Moore ever says. In this environment, it shouldn’t be surprising at all to learn that yes, there are people who think that just because someone votes Democrat they are neccessarily in favor of legal abortions and allowing same-sex marriage. Because some Democrats are in favor of those things, and so anyone who doesn’t actively disassociate themselves from such people by not voting Democrat is “objectively pro-abortion”. Obvious caveat: there is nothing reprehensible about being in favor of same-sex marriage and keeping abortion legal. But some people _perceive_ those things as being reprehensible, and thus the “logic” follows. But of course, it doesn’t work the other way. Chris Cox can stand in front of prominent Republicans including the Vice-President and claim we continue to find facilities in Iraq for producing WMD’s, and Ann Coulter (another CPAC speaker, dontcha know) can continue to canonize McCarthy and call Barbara Boxer “learning-disabled”, but it would be _preposterous_, naturally, to call Republicans “objectively pro-wingnut”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895.md?page=5)