# When is it OK to hate Republicans? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895 "2005-02-19T16:20:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/81 "2005-02-22T15:53:43Z")
Two things I’d like to point out: 1. The Bush != Republican Party arguments seems like the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The Republican Party chose him in the last two primaries, so Bush is obviously representative of Republicans. 2. Republicans are in fact born. Certain personality traits would lead to a person being more conservative or liberal, and people are born with their personality. I’m not sure if anyone has studies this specifically, but probably identical twins separated at birth tend to share a political affiliation. That sort of thing fits with all the other studies about nature vs. nurture. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/82 "2005-02-22T16:01:33Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > As for willfully and deliberately doing evil, I still maintain that deliberately starting a war using false pretenses has to be on the Top Ten List of Evil Things That A Man Can Do™. And it reflects very poorly on the GOP that they would embrace such a person wholeheartedly as a candidate… And let’s add active support for codifying Hate in the US Constitution. Those who voted for Bush claiming that while the above were disturbing, they’re not the only issues they considered when casting their ballot, need, in my ever-less-humble oppinion, to get their _fucking_ priorities straightened out, and in a hurry. I don’t _hate_ the Bush supporters. But goddamn am I disgusted by them these days. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/83 "2005-02-22T16:25:39Z")
As the guy who brought this quote into GD and who started the GQ thread to verify it, let me weigh in. Firstly, the GQ thread did prove that Dean in fact made that exact quote. Secondly, the reason I brought it up was to contrast something really stupid that Dean said with the non-issue that was being debated in a GD thread-- the comment Dean made about minorities being hard to find in the GOP. I was surprised that some people were upset about that remark, but seemed to be missing something very inflamitory that Dean had recently said. At any rate, I was focussing more on the second part of the sentence (… and everything they stand for) more than the first part, which everyone here seems to be latching onto. Dean hates EVERYTHING that the Republicans stand for, huh? Every last thing? He is saying there is ABSOLUTELY NO COMMON GROUND between Republicans and Democrats. None, nada, zip. Talk about someone who is a divider, and not a uniter-- unless, of course, his intention is to “unite” everyone into a single party. It shuts down debate, demonizes the opposition, and makes the guy look like a complete idiot all at once. Frankly, I expect that Dean was running on at the mouth when he said this, and he’d surely qualify and soften it if he were asked to explain it. But as of now, it just hangs there, unqualified and unexplained. There’s a lot about Dean that I like, and I think he got a bum rap about the YEAAAAAAAAHHHHH! thing. He’s intelligent, articulate, and a good organizer. He was one of the few Dems with the spine to buck the tide and opennly, \*\*\*unequivocally \*\*\*oppose the Iraq War. He also has a lot of natural charisma, and that’s an important trait for someone running for high, public office-- especially in the exective branch. Now, to answer the OP: It’s OK to hate a political group and EVERYTHING they stand for, when you can tick off every policy that group has and demonstrate that there is a good reason for hating it. Just making a blanket, unsupported statement like Dean’s is a rant of the worst kind, not an argument that can be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/84 "2005-02-22T17:03:23Z")
**Mace** , do you have a link for confirmation of the “I hate Republicans” quote? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/85 "2005-02-22T17:29:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Mace** , do you have a link for confirmation of the “I hate Republicans” quote? I should have linked to [this GQ thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302911&highlight=republicans) in my post, above. In particular, \*\*manny \*\*found [this Washington Post article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47526-2005Jan29.html) by Dana Milbank (see 2nd page). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/86 "2005-02-22T17:29:58Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Dean hates EVERYTHING that the Republicans stand for, huh? Every last thing? He is saying there is ABSOLUTELY NO COMMON GROUND between Republicans and Democrats. None, nada, zip. Talk about someone who is a divider, and not a uniter-- unless, of course, his intention is to “unite” everyone into a single party. It shuts down debate, demonizes the opposition, and makes the guy look like a complete idiot all at once. I think he’s stating a fact: there is no common ground between the two parties. That’s not “there’s no common ground between what Republicans and Democrats believe is the best way to solve this country’s problems,” because there **is** that sort of common ground. But when Dems (or Dem-leaning groups [such as AARP](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_02/005700.php)) try and find common ground with the GOP, then get attacked by the GOP and its fellow travelers just as vituperatively as if they’d never done so, then there is no common ground _between the parties_, as distinct from the parties’ belief sets. Ditto for when GOP legislators try to work with Dems, and the GOP leadership asks them which knee they’d like to have kneecapped. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/87 "2005-02-22T17:48:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think he’s stating a fact: there is no common ground between the two parties. Yeah, yeah, tell me that next time there’s a vote to change congressional salaries or restrict lobbying. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/88 "2005-02-22T18:17:34Z")
I think a lot of you are reading way too much into Dean’s “I hate Republicans” quote. Does it mean that he _personally_ hates everyone who is a Republican? Or does it mean that he hates the Republican Party as an organization? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/89 "2005-02-22T18:28:48Z")
To me it sounded like he was talking about the party as an organization. I think it was a little impolitic but Dean is a party chairman not an elected official so it doesn’t really matter what Republicans think of him. If it starts to become a pattern _ala_ Coulter it may be a problem for the Dems. I’m not a Dem so I don’t really care that much, personally. The Bushies routinely say worse things in more subtle ways about anyone who opposes them. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/90 "2005-02-22T18:47:14Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Nobody was born a Republican. xpt me Being an American’s a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/91 "2005-02-22T18:49:46Z")
I won’t do milk, and my wife won’t do bacon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/92 "2005-02-22T19:39:59Z")
> [@Avumede](#): > > Two things I’d like to point out: > > 1. The Bush != Republican Party arguments seems like the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The Republican Party chose him in the last two primaries, so Bush is obviously representative of Republicans. The Bush != American argument seems like the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The Americans chose him in the last election, so Bush is obvioiusly representative of Americans. IOW, “representative” != equals. > [@](#): > > 1. Republicans are in fact born. Certain personality traits would lead to a person being more conservative or liberal, and people are born with their personality. I’m not sure if anyone has studies this specifically, but probably identical twins separated at birth tend to share a political affiliation. That sort of thing fits with all the other studies about nature vs. nurture. I call Bullshit on that. Cite that personality traits are inborn and that personality traits lead to political affiliation? ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/93 "2005-02-22T21:58:32Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The Bush != American argument seems like the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. The Americans chose him in the last election, so Bush is obvioiusly representative of Americans. The question, of course, is whether Bush is representative of the Republican party. He is, as you point out, representative of the U.S. to some degree (since we elected him), and to the Republican Party to a much higher degree (since his support there is very high). > [@](#): > > I call Bullshit on that. Cite that personality traits are inborn and that personality traits lead to political affiliation? The fact that personality traits are inborn is not only obvious (ask a parent of more than one child), but has huge amount of research to back it up. For example, identical twins reared apart are much more likely to be similar than two siblings reared in the same home. See [http://www.personalityresearch.org/bg.html](http://www.personalityresearch.org/bg.html) for an overview. That personality traits lead to political affiliation has some research behind it, but I’m not an expert in the field and so cannot properly contextualize this research. But see [http://rss.archives.ceu.hu/archive/00001129/01/138.pdf](http://rss.archives.ceu.hu/archive/00001129/01/138.pdf) and [http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/0162-895X.00141/abs/](http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/0162-895X.00141/abs/) for an example. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/94 "2005-02-22T22:56:10Z")
> [@Avumede](#): > > The question, of course, is whether Bush is representative of the Republican party. He is, as you point out, representative of the U.S. to some degree (since we elected him), and to the Republican Party to a much higher degree (since his support there is very high). So how does this relate to the “No true Scotsman” fallacy? Whenever you vote, you choose from a limmited number of candidates. It’s very common for people to vote for someone simply because they don’t like the other guy, not because they are 100% in agreement with the guy they vote for. > [@](#): > > The fact that personality traits are inborn is not only obvious (ask a parent of more than one child), Completely irrelevant. Nothing is “obvious”, least of all the cause of personality. > [@](#): > > but has huge amount of research to back it up. For example, identical twins reared apart are much more likely to be similar than two siblings reared in the same home. See [Great Ideas in Personality--Behavior Genetics](http://www.personalityresearch.org/bg.html) for an overview. Your cite does not prove your assertion. But save yourself the bother of citing other studies. I’ve read dozens of books and research papers on the topic, and I can assure you that the hypothesis (and that’s all it is at this point) that personality is inborn has not be proven. > [@](#): > > That personality traits lead to political affiliation has some research behind it, but I’m not an expert in the field and so cannot properly contextualize this research. But see [http://rss.archives.ceu.hu/archive/00001129/01/138.pdf](http://rss.archives.ceu.hu/archive/00001129/01/138.pdf) and > [http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/0162-895X.00141/abs/](http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/0162-895X.00141/abs/) for an example. I can assure you that this is even more in the realm of unproven hypothesis than even your first assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/95 "2005-02-23T02:40:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > They have no such right to make that choice with my money. 😕 Who said your money would be involved? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/96 "2005-02-23T02:46:14Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > 😕 Who said your money would be involved? I pay taxes. The school voucher scam is just a scheme to funnel tax payer money into religious schools. Giving vouchers directly to parents does not wash off the fact tat it is tax payer money. Anyone who wants to send their kids to Baptist school can do it with their own money, not mine. I will happily pay more for public schools. I will not pay for religious indoctrination. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/97 "2005-02-23T02:50:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I pay taxes. The school voucher scam is just a scheme to funnel tax payer money into religious schools. Giving vouchers directly to parents does not wash off the fact tat it is tax payer money. Anyone who wants to send their kids to Baptist school can do it with their own money, not mine. I will happily pay more for public schools. I will not pay for religious indoctrination. If everyone had vouchers, instead of the government taking taxes from everyone and distributing it to public schools, then basically it would work out to each family deciding, with their own money, where their children should go. You could pay the public school of your choice, and the Baptist familly could send their kid(s) to a Baptist school. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/98 "2005-02-23T03:16:33Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I pay taxes. The school voucher scam is just a scheme to funnel tax payer money into religious schools. Giving vouchers directly to parents does not wash off the fact tat it is tax payer money. The idea of using school vouchers to introduce competition into public schooling is championed by many libertarians. While I have no doubt that some religiously minded folks would like to co-opt that idea to funnel money to religious schools, you’re painting with way too broad a brush here. I support the idea of school vouchers, but would not want religious schools involved in that program. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/99 "2005-02-23T03:19:39Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > If everyone had vouchers, instead of the government taking taxes from everyone and distributing it to public schools, then basically it would work out to each family deciding, with their own money, where their children should go. You could pay the public school of your choice, and the Baptist familly could send their kid(s) to a Baptist school. Nope. Vouchers ARE funded thru taxes. If it was everyone using his own money, you wouldn’t need vouchers at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895/100 "2005-02-23T03:22:29Z")
Wow, I just realized that all this talk about vouchers is off track from the OP, so I think I’ve said all I have to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-ok-to-hate-republicans/290895.md?page=6)