# When is it required to give a Social Security Number to an institution? (USA) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087 "2014-09-10T16:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/1 "2014-09-10T16:58:04Z")
As in the subject, I would like to know when it is required to give your SSN to an institution, and when you can legitimately refuse. The reason that I am asking this, is that it is my understanding that the SSN is **NOT** an “Identification” number, and it is solely for the use of the Social Security Administration, the IRS, and essentially any institution that might have a bearing on taxes (eg. employer, mortgage companies, perhaps doctors if paying by insurance). I just left a place where I was going to take what is essentially a general knowledge test in my field (a non-mandatory certification), and in addition to my name, address, home and cell phone numbers, email, race, birthdate, drivers license, they insisted that I give my SSN, and I refused. They emphatically stated that they would not give me the test unless I complied with the SSN number requirement, so I walked out. Right or wrong? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/2 "2014-09-10T17:18:14Z")
Your SSN has become a de facto unique identifier for many companies, for example health insurance companies, since no two people in the US should ever have the same SSN. I don’t know whether that’s actually true or not, but the chance of two random people having the same SSN is incredibly small. So if you give me your SSN I can use that to identify you separate from everyone else, which is a lot easier than me having to come up with some other kind of identifier system. I don’t think giving out your SSN to a legitimate company is all that dangerous in this day and age, but I could be wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/3 "2014-09-10T17:24:53Z")
Most companies have moved or are moving away from using SSNs as a means of identification as rules about the protection of PII (personal identifiable information) become more strict. Unless the company had to provide a W-4 or 1099 or other financial statement I’m surprised they would ask for it. ETA: Whenever someone asks for your SSN, it’s always prudent to ask “what do you need it for?” And walk away if they can’t give you a good answer. “To identify you” is not a good answer. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/4 "2014-09-10T17:57:50Z")
Another vote for withholding SSN. The testing organization is way out of line in asking. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/5 "2014-09-10T18:00:28Z")
I still have my Social Security card dating from 1948. On the card, in plain letters, is the statement “Not to be used for identification”. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/6 "2014-09-10T18:06:52Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Your SSN has become a de facto unique identifier for many companies, for example health insurance companies, since no two people in the US should ever have the same SSN. I don’t know whether that’s actually true or not, but the chance of two random people having the same SSN is incredibly small. So if you give me your SSN I can use that to identify you separate from everyone else, which is a lot easier than me having to come up with some other kind of identifier system. > > I don’t think giving out your SSN to a legitimate company is all that dangerous in this day and age, but I could be wrong about that. I just want to say that your information is incredibly out of date and entirely backward. Here is a useful, if long, FAQ [Information about use of SSN](https://www.privacyrights.org/my-social-security-number-how-secure-it). The gist of it, related to the OP, is that they can request it, you can refuse, and they can refuse service. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/7 "2014-09-10T18:11:54Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > I still have my Social Security card dating from 1948. On the card, in plain letters, is the statement “Not to be used for identification”. It was removed from the cards in 1972. Cite: [Why does my old social security card say it can’t be used as ID?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/141/why-does-my-old-social-security-card-say-it-cant-be-used-as-id) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/8 "2014-09-10T19:56:22Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I just want to say that your information is incredibly out of date and entirely backward. > > Here is a useful, if long, FAQ [Information about use of SSN](https://www.privacyrights.org/my-social-security-number-how-secure-it). > > The gist of it, related to the OP, is that they can request it, you can refuse, and they can refuse service. It may be backwards, but SSN’s are still being used to identify customers by lots of companies. You can refuse to give them you SSN if you choose, and they can refuse to sell you their product, service or whatever. I still believe in free will. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/9 "2014-09-10T21:37:26Z")
My employer switched from SSN to another numerical string some years ago. I was helping someone fill out an application for a tourist visa this week. The instructions say that if you are from the US and therefore don’t have a national ID number, you must use your SSN. When I called the visa agent to ask about this, I was told that the person could refuse, and the consequence would be that a visa wouldn’t be issued. ---
**Author:** ![pseudograph](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pseudograph/32/19768_2.png) [@pseudograph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudograph)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/10 "2014-09-10T22:11:02Z")
When I first got my driver’s license in Kentucky, the id number was my social security number. They switched to their own unique identifier many, many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/11 "2014-09-10T22:50:03Z")
Just make up a number. I doubt that they check it. Of course, an employer had the right to it and so does your bank. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/12 "2014-09-11T00:29:43Z")
In the Air Force, we’re not allowed to ask for someone’s Social Security Number without an explanation of why it’s needed and what it is used for. And the reason has to be on a pre-approved list. For paperwork, this means there as to be a “Privacy Act Statement” explaining that our need for the SSN is allowed per the Privacy Act of 1974. Not everybody handing out paperwork and collecting Personally Identifiable Information is aware of the requirement, but they get corrected when they’re found out about it. As it happens, it’s a huge pain in the ass to justify needing someone’s social. OTOH, a lot of our computer systems use it as a unique way to identify people (that said, the Air Force, and I suspect the DOD as a whole, is moving away from that and juts issuing people new numbers unique to the military to fill the same role). ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/13 "2014-09-11T01:45:24Z")
I decline to provide mine (or claim I don’t remember it) whenever I’m asked. Utility companies, regular businesses, almost everybody else–they don’t need it. In my experience they’ve got tons of options for identifiers and require one to three. I don’t trust anybody to have good data protection policies, shredding procedures, and background-checked janitors. Whenever you give somebody a number over the phone consider it as good as filed in a forgotten folder or stuffed in the janitor’s pocket. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/14 "2014-09-11T01:52:31Z")
For many years my health insurance company (Kaiser) used my ssn as my identifier in their system. With the advent of HIPAA, however, they can no longer use the number if it is for the primary account holder and I was issued another (which I have failed to memorize). I understand, though, that if I had dependents in the system, my ssn would be _their_ identifier suffixed by a letter, although that means that a bad guy could still identify me. Bob ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/15 "2014-09-11T02:32:12Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > … no two people in the US should ever have the same SSN. I don’t know whether that’s actually true or not, but the chance of two random people having the same SSN is incredibly small. The chance is big enough so that if you work in IT, it’s a reason not to use SSN as the actual internal hidden identifier in a your records system. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/16 "2014-09-11T03:50:27Z")
Those of us who resent this practice sometimes have a fake SSN ready to recite after the third polite inquiry “are you sure that’s absolutely required?” is answered with “I’m just doing my job, sir.” In my case, my childhood phone number (minus the final digit) works just fine. Since it begins with a 9, there’s no chance it’s in use as an actual SSN—though I occasionally run across someone smart enough to know that. Of course, if I give the fake number to enough places, ironically _that_ will eventually be sufficient to cross-reference a bunch of data on me. ---
**Author:** ![Dobbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Dobbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dobbs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/17 "2014-09-11T03:59:02Z")
567-68-0515 The SSAN of one Richard M. Nixon. Also the one I give those who have no business with my SSAN. Be aware that it is well known, and that you may be told "no, it isn’t yours"or a met with a knowing nod. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/18 "2014-09-11T04:11:45Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Just make up a number. I doubt that they check it. > > Of course, an employer had the right to it and so does your bank. NO. Absolutely not. If they run a credit check for whatever reason, they will enter that number on your record as they run your check. That “new” number will thereafter appear on your credit report and you’ll forever be asked to explain it. Just refuse and walk away. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/19 "2014-09-11T06:00:56Z")
When I got married we were required to show our SS card to obtain a marriage license. Not just give the SSN but present the physical card. I had lost mine years ago and had to apply for a new card before we could get the marriage license. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087/20 "2014-09-11T11:06:07Z")
Thank you for all of the responses. I really appreciate it, especially after finding out that some people for the people who DID take that test, their SSN # was assigned to be their login for the company sponsoring the exam. I’m glad that I refused, and today I found out that all testing throughout my company has now been suspended with that agency because of the SSN issue. You guys rock! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-it-required-to-give-a-social-security-number-to-an-institution-usa/698087.md?page=2)