# When is NOT voting justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869 "2017-10-03T14:19:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/21 "2017-10-04T02:00:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Also, I’m unaware of any problems caused by people not voting that cannot be solved with more people not voting. > > Obviously Trump creeps you out, hi-five buddy. You think it’s because people did not vote. No. It’s because people did vote… for Trump. This is my thinking. I can’t find anything logical about trying to get more people to vote by way of a guilt-producing attack on their morality. Essentially, your argument in favor of this, is based on your dislike of an OUTCOME which you ASSUME would have been different had more people voted. The only possible logical linkage involving “morality” that I can think of in all this, is that anyone to does fail to vote, doesn’t “morally” have a right to have anyone pay attention when they complain about election results. Even that is weak. Sorry, but as much as I would like to see an experiment in requiring all adults to vote (just to see what, if any, difference it would make), I am quite sure that there’s no way to make a MORAL argument about it stick. By the way: the people who refused to vote for either Clinton or Trump, WERE voting their consciences: they didn’t want either one of them, and there is still no provision for voting to discard the entire election and start over. Perhaps there should be. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/22 "2017-10-04T13:24:11Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > I can’t find anything logical about trying to get more people to vote by way of a guilt-producing attack on their morality. Essentially, your argument in favor of this, is based on your dislike of an OUTCOME which you ASSUME would have been different had more people voted. Especially if you push them into voting - if there was a ‘you must vote’ law (good luck getting that passed with America’s history of elections), I would expect a lot more votes for Trump and for third parties. Why? Because the establishment is trying to force you at gunpoint to vote for one of their cronies, so you rebel by technically complying but by voting for whoever you feel is most anti-establishment. Since Trump got a lot of votes from people using logic like ‘fuck the corrupt system, I’m going to vote for someone who will shake things up’, and Hillary was about as ‘part of the corrupt system’ as you can be, I’d expect him to benefit much more from the effect than she would. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/23 "2017-10-04T20:37:04Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > The only possible logical linkage involving “morality” that I can think of in all this, is that anyone to does fail to vote, doesn’t “morally” have a right to have anyone pay attention when they complain about election results. Even that is weak. Living in Idaho, as I do, this _looks_ really weak. This state is largely rural and is completely dominated by conservatives. So, as a liberal, I have this choice: Waste my time throwing in a vote for the candidate that is guaranteed to lose, or not waste my time for the exact same result. The argument that you don’t have a right to complain if you do nothing only works if there’s something you can do. Me voting is exactly the same as me doing nothing, so I have exactly the same right to complain either way. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/24 "2017-10-05T22:41:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Living in Idaho, as I do, this _looks_ really weak. This state is largely rural and is completely dominated by conservatives. So, as a liberal, I have this choice: Waste my time throwing in a vote for the candidate that is guaranteed to lose, or not waste my time for the exact same result. > > The argument that you don’t have a right to complain if you do nothing only works if there’s something you can do. Me voting is exactly the same as me doing nothing, so I have exactly the same right to complain either way. Of course you have a RIGHT to complain. It’s America, after all. The point here, is about making “moral” arguments, which have nothing to do with rights. Minor argument you might consider that is in favor of you voting even when you are guaranteed to lose: if only your opponents vote, the APPEARANCE is, that you did not oppose them at all. That you actually supported them. Just something to ponder. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/25 "2017-10-05T22:44:12Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Especially if you push them into voting - if there was a ‘you must vote’ law (good luck getting that passed with America’s history of elections), I would expect a lot more votes for Trump and for third parties. Why? Because the establishment is trying to force you at gunpoint to vote for one of their cronies, so you rebel by technically complying but by voting for whoever you feel is most anti-establishment. Since Trump got a lot of votes from people using logic like ‘fuck the corrupt system, I’m going to vote for someone who will shake things up’, and Hillary was about as ‘part of the corrupt system’ as you can be, I’d expect him to benefit much more from the effect than she would. I agree. People do respond to coercion differently than most proponents of coercion like to pretend. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869/26 "2017-10-05T22:44:27Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Of course you have a RIGHT to complain. It’s America, after all. The point here, is about making “moral” arguments, which have nothing to do with rights. > > Minor argument you might consider that is in favor of you voting even when you are guaranteed to lose: if only your opponents vote, the APPEARANCE is, that you did not oppose them at all. That you actually supported them. > > Just something to ponder. Again, I’m in Idaho. Anybody who thinks I supported, opposed, or in any way whatsoever impacted the future of the country no matter whether I voted or not can be accurately regarded as somebody who just doesn’t understand the local situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-not-voting-justified/797869.md?page=1)