# When is sexism okay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037 "2009-03-19T16:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/201 "2009-03-20T17:26:42Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Nobody says “my breasts look amazing” when they are just talking about their breasts as abstract forms. "My breasts look amazing’ means “I look smoking hot.” Or “I think the shrooms are kicking in.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/202 "2009-03-20T18:04:50Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > She’s had the user name since before 1984? I didn’t think the SDMB had been around for more than 25 years. Right, 'cause nobody made titty jokes on ARPANET. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/203 "2009-03-20T18:17:15Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > This thread fails without pictures. Alright, alright, I’ll post some pics of my breasts. Hope you don’t mind all the hair. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/204 "2009-03-20T18:18:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > She’s had the user name since before 1984? I didn’t think the SDMB had been around for more than 25 years. Woosh. Office Space reference. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/205 "2009-03-20T18:18:49Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Maybe in the long run it’s a good sign that young women can get so easily confused about what sexism actually is. Forty years ago when I was first introduced to the idea of feminism and had my eyes opened to have different things _could_ be, sexism was suddenly so obvious. Men were allowed and expected to do certain things and women were allowed and expected to do other things. _And those things were practically carved in stone._ > > Some of them are still sitting in the back of people’s minds. I see it ever now and then in little ways – (someone addressing the participants in Great Debates as “Gentlemen,” for example) – but it’s still there and just as ignorant. This is a pet peeve of mine. Ignorance is not the be all end all reason for everything. Just because someone believes in different social mores than you do doesn’t make them ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/206 "2009-03-20T18:36:53Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Woosh. Office Space reference. Okay, I see it now. But, give me a break on that, it wasn’t analogous. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/207 "2009-03-20T19:07:41Z")
Hey **Tracy** , aren’t you the one a few years back that was just compelled to share/blog about the evening you finally lost your virginity? > **[I had SEX! (TMI, duh.)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303499)** > > And, my virginity is gone the way of the dodo. I picked up an attractive actor at a cast party and now I’m one very pleased young woman. So I’m throwing a little self-congratulatory party. throws confetti I’M HOT AND I GOT LAID LAST NIGHT, YESSS!! ... Yep, I guess so. We’ll, you’ve got some interesting ideas about public versus private information, what should or shouldn’t be shared, and how you regard other’s responses to the things you share. Just an opinion here, but if I had to share a workplace with you and then put down bets with coworkers on who was going to help us achieve a, “hostile work environment,” I figure you might be near the top of those brackets. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/208 "2009-03-20T19:24:30Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Hey **Tracy** , aren’t you the one a few years back that was just compelled to share/blog about the evening you finally lost your virginity? > > [I had SEX! (TMI, duh.) - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303499) > > Yep, I guess so. You win the thread. Also, the “poster with too much time on her hands” award. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/209 "2009-03-20T19:37:51Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Okay, I see it now. But, give me a break on that, it wasn’t analogous. Not judging, it was obtuse (not my reference), just letting you know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/210 "2009-03-20T19:55:53Z")
> [@Suse](#): > > Where I think that some of the confusion lies is that women don’t always think of their breasts in a sexual way. Sometimes they’re just something that can ruin the fit of clothes or enhance the way a blouse looks, to stay on the topic of clothes. > [@Suse](#): > > Once again: Breasts are not sexual all the time. I don’t want to defend everything that was done in the offending threads, but I want to say this – Saying that “breasts look amazing,” is _always_ sexual to men. Period. Breast cancer or other medical topics might be one thing. Nursing or other child-raising topics might be one thing. Comfort with regard to clothing items might be one thing. But how breasts look, especially if they are amazing, is not in any way separable from the sexual aspect of breasts. So perhaps those comments that noted that this is a mixed company forum are relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/211 "2009-03-20T20:18:19Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Saying that “breasts look amazing,” is _always_ sexual to men. Period. Nitpick: if I were to say, “ **acsenray** ’s breasts looking amazing”, that would _not_ be sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/212 "2009-03-20T20:26:06Z")
Is it too late for me to observe that I understand **Jodi’s** breasts are indeed quite impressive for a big old moanbag?! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/213 "2009-03-20T20:27:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: if I were to say, “ **acsenray** ’s breasts looking amazing”, that would _not_ be sexual. Hm. Are you sure? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/214 "2009-03-20T20:34:08Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Are you sure? > > 😃 Well, I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/215 "2009-03-20T21:43:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You win the thread. Also, the “poster with too much time on her hands” award. Um, all you have to do is go to said user’s profile and click, “See all threads by user.” ---
**Author:** ![Psiharis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Psiharis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psiharis)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/216 "2009-03-20T22:17:25Z")
Without evidence to the contrary, why is it so hard to believe that she was just explaining why she loved this shirt so much? 😕 Here’s what I got from the description: that the shirt was flattering on her, that it’s unusual for shirts to fit her that well, that it’s a dressy shirt and partially removing the wine stain or retiring it to laundry/gardening status is not acceptable… Nothing about her body other than a vaguely hourglass figure and the fact that she likes to feel good about it sometimes. Who doesn’t? Actually, not to insult **TL** at all, but the very fact that THIS shirt is so unusual and special suggests to me that she _doesn’t_ think her body is categorically awesome, and all the flirtatious comments might strike her as sarcastic and needlessly cruel. I’ll freely admit I’m probably projecting my own insecurities there, I just don’t understand why that’s such an unthinkable scenario. The original description of the shirt sounds like something I might say to a close female friend. I would cite examples of things I have _actually_ said to friends, but apparently that would be taken as an invitation to make the thread about _my_ anatomy. :rolleyes: In mixed company, I personally would use less sexually charged terms like “extremely flattering,” but I’m a reserved person in general. I can easily see how a perfectly normal woman might forget her audience or, heaven forfend, mistakenly trust that audience is mature enough to leave it at a couple of flirtatious comments and stop before it gets out of hand. Maybe she could have / should have anticipated the reaction – that doesn’t make it any more acceptable to link the red wine thread when she posts about something unrelated. The attitude that she brought it upon herself and it’s OK to “push her buttons” just because you can is vile. I thought this board was better than that. Calling the OP an attention whore for mourning a favorite shirt is pretty low. I know it’s the internet and a lot of girls get used to being the sole authority on all things female, but there is a wide range of ways that people think of and discuss themselves and their bodies. I’m stuck in a place with a male-female ratio of ~25:1, and some of the women cope by trash-talking other women to be welcomed by the guys. **even sven** ’s post reminded me of that behavior and I felt I had to speak up. C’mon, girls, we’re outnumbered as it is – let’s at least be civil to one another. All of which is to say, just leave her alone, sheesh. She says she doesn’t want this kind of attention – is it so clever to call her a liar? There are plenty of women on the internet who ARE attention whores and DO want it, so go talk about their boobs instead. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/217 "2009-03-20T22:46:18Z")
Lo these many moons ago I was lurking away and somebody said something like “Don’t you dare talk about my integrity”. Or “my honor”. Or something like that. Can you guess what happened next? Got it in one. The word “integrity” (or whatever it was, but that’s the word I remember) shortly lit up the search function like Vegas lights up the desert. Honestly, I don’t think **Tracy Lord** was an attention whore at all in the usual sense of that word. I do think she occasionally displayed a certain kind of brittle self righteousness which is for some people nearly impossible to resist. And despite all of the usual hyperanalysis and dissection, I don’t think it had anything to do with her breasts at all, really. But then, I think most of the time people have no idea why they do what they do, so that may be just me. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/218 "2009-03-20T22:50:39Z")
> [@Psiharis](#): > > The original description of the shirt sounds like something I might say to a close female friend. I would cite examples of things I have _actually_ said to friends, but apparently that would be taken as an invitation to make the thread about _my_ anatomy. :rolleyes: In mixed company, I personally would use less sexually charged terms like “extremely flattering,” but I’m a reserved person in general. I can easily see how a perfectly normal woman might forget her audience or, heaven forfend, mistakenly trust that audience is mature enough to leave it at a couple of flirtatious comments and stop before it gets out of hand. How was the comment in the other thread “out of hand”? I might also say “this shirt makes my boobs look amazing”, but because I would say something like that, I would also say to a friend with a crush on a hot new guy “wear that shirt that makes your boobs look amazing”. To me, both comments are the same level of informality/slight naughtiness. I don’t see why one comment is ok and the other is “sexist”. ---
**Author:** ![Psiharis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Psiharis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psiharis)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/219 "2009-03-20T23:22:07Z")
I thought about adding that I disagreed with the label of sexism, but I missed the edit window and figured it probably didn’t matter. I do think it’s crass and thoughtless to continue a behavior after someone has asked you to stop, though. There _may be_ a certain amount of sexism to the attitude that she brought it upon herself and deserves to have her buttons pushed, but I can’t say whether the same posters would be so venomous toward a man for posting about himself that way. As for “out of hand,” I was referring to the newer thread, not anything in the original red wine thread. What purpose does it serve to link to that thread in some other discussion and comment about her reputation? I don’t think she deserves a reputation. I would say she learned her lesson, but I don’t know why she needed to learn one any more than the men in the red wine thread need to learn the lesson that sexual comments aren’t always welcome, even if you think they should be. Sometimes human communication is imperfect, and both genders ought to have the grace to discontinue behavior after it is clear that it is not welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/220 "2009-03-20T23:54:38Z")
> [@Tracy\_Lord](#): > > I don’t think the things that are making me uncomfortable and unhappy to be here are going to change, so I’ve decided to stop posting. The benefits aren’t making up for the negatives any more. Thanks to everyone who’s contributed thoughtful responses. So you’ve decided not to post a pic of the blouse making your boobs look amazing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=12)