# When is sexism okay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037 "2009-03-19T16:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/281 "2009-03-21T18:34:35Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Jesus christ, how many years ago was the virginity thing? So forever and ever amen people will have to drag around every word they say to be brought up later in future threads? Welcome to the Digital Age, _mademoiselle_. Sorry, no refunds will be given. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/282 "2009-03-21T18:35:21Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I’ve seen you participate in the occasional relationship thread. Should people say “Oh why are you here? Why would I want the opinion of someone who stays in a terrible marriage to give me advice?!” > . People say this all the time to particular posters, to my knowledge usually men. I have seen people remark on **Dinsdale** ’s relationship to his wife in threads quite wholly unrelated to the subject (for example it was brought up in his recent “should I buy this peice of property?” thread.) There is another poster, whose name escapes me right now, who has a sort of marriage of convenience with his wife and people bring that up quite frequently when he posts in advice threads. I don’t think **Autoclys** ever lived down the whole ladle incident, and that thread was years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/283 "2009-03-21T18:39:47Z")
No, Finn, YOU quit it. You’re the one who is making truly idiotic arguments here. Tracy Lord never said, “I have awesome tits.” She simply said a shirt made her boobs look amazing. Why does that make you lose your mind? Are you incapable of making the distinction, or are you being deliberately obtuse? Seems like you have some major axe to grind here, and your reaction is out of proportion to what she said. No one is comparing this to rape but you. You are fantastic at twisting things around to justify what is basically immature, idiotic behavior. It’s not rape, it’s just obnoxious. Somehow, you talking about how you can lick your own eyebrows and are great at oral sex is the same as Tracy saying her shirt makes her boobs look good. Are you truly incapable of making these distinctions? eleanor, please don’t be one of those women who sides with the guys on this. Hal Briston got sick of the sheep jokes after months, and Tracy after a week. Maybe Hal was sick of it sooner but realized that he would receive similar treatment to Tracy’s, and sucked it up for longer. Tracy is not Hal, and she doesn’t have to react the same way Hal did in order to have her feelings respected. She’s also pointing out a trend in this boards that is obviously much deeper than this incident, considering the length of this thread. > [@](#): > > But if they still think it’s ok to post whatever they were going to, then they should. Otherwise we are asking them to self-censor, which cannot be good for the board long-term. If women here expect the men to do otherwise, then we have become (again) the arbiters of acceptable behavior, the gatekeepers for those cavemen, if you will, and I doubt anyone wants that. Everyone should be in charge of themselves and responsible for their own behavior. We ALL are asked to self-censor, all the time, in life and on the Dope, including in the Pit, now. That’s part of living in society, not just saying whatever rude, childish, shitty thing you feel like saying all the time. There are men posting in this thread too, saying that the other men are being jerks. And there are men in this thread saying that yes, they ARE cavemen, and can’t help themselves, it’s just natural and we should all just accept it or we aren’t living in reality. Post what you want, but if someone asks you to stop, then fucking stop, otherwise you are being an ass. Definitely don’t twist yourself into knots to blame the other person for what you said. If you are in charge of yourself and responsible for your own behavior, then when you hurt someone, instead of turning it around on them, apologize and knock it off. Right? > [@](#): > > And perhaps the female Dopers here who are so up in arms about this relative tempest in a teapot should examine why they feel so strongly about this. Traci Lord is not a poster child for oppressed women. There’s plenty of sexism going around on all sides here. I feel so strongly about it because I hate seeing people blame someone for what they themselves said. She’s not a poster child for oppressed women. How ridiculous for you to get that out of this thread. I’m just astonished by how many people could take what she said and turn it into a justification to accuse her of being an attention whoring offense troll, kick the crap out of her, drag up shit from 5 years ago to use it against her, and say that anyone who expects men to resist boob jokes doesn’t live in reality. I’m extra surprised to see you on their side of it, eleanor. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/284 "2009-03-21T18:51:25Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > No, Finn, YOU quit it. You’re the one who is making truly idiotic arguments here. Tracy Lord never said, “I have awesome tits.” She most certainly did, and not only did she, she freaking italicized the word “amazing”. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > She simply said a shirt made her boobs look amazing. Are you really so dense that you think her saying her boobs looked amazing is different from saying her tits looked amazing? Are you fucking for real? Is your argument going to boil down to “Sure, she said her boobs were amazing, but not her tits!” Are you so wrapped up in your desire to take offense that you’ve jumped right the fuck off the rails? Do I need to ask? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Why does that make you lose your mind? Why does your irrational wimpy idiocy make you strawman and lie about me? Where have I flirted with that attention whore, at all? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > No one is comparing this to rape but you. Liar. And a cowardly liar to boot. “She was asking for it” doesn’t, deliberately, allude to that very same argument used by rapists? Fuck that noise. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Somehow, you talking about how you can lick your own eyebrows and are great at oral sex is the same as Tracy saying her shirt makes her boobs look good. Are you truly incapable of making these distinctions? There is no distinction you thin skinned moron. Both are talking about how [sexual attribute] [is good]. Both. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > eleanor, please don’t be one of those women who sides with the guys on this. You’ll notice that men and women have posted on both sides of this debate. Why am I not fucking surprised that you see this as “women” against “the guys”? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I feel so strongly about it because I hate seeing people blame someone for what they themselves said. She’s not a poster child for oppressed women. How ridiculous for you to get that out of this thread. Yeah, it’s almost like someone started the thread by saying that her treatment was indicative of sexism and other people compared it to rape by using the phrase “oh, she was asking for it then”? Why would anybody have gotten the sense that being flirted with was a horrible indignity? Oh and, as for your lying, as already posted in this thread on how rape and flirting are the same basic tactic : > [@](#): > > It’s not the same level of horrible, no, of course not. But it’s the same basic _tactic_ and it’s still pretty terrible. A woman does something, anything that sexually excites or interests a man. The man acts on that interest. Woman says no way. The man continues on his course of action anyway. The woman should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/285 "2009-03-21T19:03:39Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > She most certainly did, and not only did she, she freaking italicized the word “amazing”. No, she didn’t. She was talking about how a shirt made her look. The actual quality of her boobs was not discussed. > [@](#): > > Are you really so dense that you think her saying her boobs looked amazing is different from saying her tits looked amazing? Are you fucking for real? Is your argument going to boil down to “Sure, she said her boobs were amazing, but not her tits!” Are you so wrapped up in your desire to take offense that you’ve jumped right the fuck off the rails? > Do I need to ask? I’m much more offended by your inane, insulting twisting of her words than anything said in the originating threads. She said the shirt made her look good. She used the word “boobs.” Burn her at the stake! > [@](#): > > Why does your irrational wimpy idiocy make you strawman and lie about me? Where have I flirted with that attention whore, at all? You have lost your mind, though. Flirting? I never accused you of flirting, just another thing you made up. > [@](#): > > Liar. And a cowardly liar to boot. “She was asking for it” doesn’t, deliberately, allude to that very same argument used by rapists? Fuck that noise. I’m lying by telling you what I meant when I said something? No, I don’t think you’re using that word correctly. You are saying she deserved the rude comments. I don’t think she did. Rape was brought into it by YOU. You can stop any time. > [@](#): > > There is no distinction you thin skinned moron. Being called a moron by you is a compliment. > [@](#): > > Yeah, it’s almost like someone started the thread by saying that her treatment was indicative of sexism and other people compared it to rape by using the phrase “oh, she was asking for it then”? Why would anybody have gotten the sense that being flirted with was a horrible indignity? It’s not flirting. It’s needling. Maybe you don’t know the difference. > [@](#): > > Oh and, as for your lying, as already posted in this thread on how rape and flirting are the same basic tactic : The tactic of blaming the victim is the same, whether it’s rape or whatever: this person did something to provoke your bad behavior. You accused ME of equating it with rape. THAT is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Chase\_Ransom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@Chase\_Ransom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chase_Ransom)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/286 "2009-03-21T19:03:59Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > No, it’s not the world. It’s a community. She obviously felt too comfortable here, a mistake I’m sure she recognizes and regrets making now. Also, this board likes to tout itself as fighting ignorance and being the smartest message board on the internet. It’s not unreasonable to expect better behavior, if you believe that. Another mistake. I don’t think the Pit is where we fight ignorance. We do that in **GQ** and **GD**. Besides, there is a difference with being knowledgeable on certain subjects, being smart, being intelligent, and it is a whole different issue to have people skills, social etiquette, and just plain manners. One thing has nothing to do with the other. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > This thread is people treating her like crap. There’s a lot of blaming her going on here, and making shit up about her to justify it. This thread I think is about putting perspective on a fantastically broad claim she made, and at least at the beginning, trying to help her see that she overreacted. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/287 "2009-03-21T19:07:59Z")
> [@Chase\_Ransom](#): > > Besides, there is a difference with being knowledgeable on certain subjects, being smart, being intelligent, and it is a whole different issue to have people skills, social etiquette, and just plain manners. One thing has nothing to do with the other. You’re right. The people who bring up topics that they know make other people uncomfortable, won’t stop when asked to, and then rationalize it by saying that they can’t be expected to help it or that it’s the other person’s fault, are socially inept and have no manners. Maybe that’s what it’s about, not the man/woman thing. > [@](#): > > This thread I think is about putting perspective on a fantastically broad claim she made, and at least at the beginning, trying to help her see that she overreacted. She overreacted, OK, I can accept that, but so did the people responding to her overreaction, by several magnitudes more than she did. See FinnAgain’s spittle-flecked ranting for proof. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/288 "2009-03-21T19:18:01Z")
Yah, some lying fool compares unwanted flirting to rape, lies about what was actually said, insults me based on the fact that she’s a liar and makes shit up as fast as she can type, and when I get annoyed my response is “spittle flecked”. That clinches it. You are deliberately posting shit you know not to be true in order to get a rise out of me, you’re not just a stupid waste of carbon, thin skinned wimp and a liar, you’re also trolling. Good show. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > No, she didn’t. She was talking about how a shirt made her look. The actual quality of her boobs was not discussed. So you’re a liar _and_ an idiot? She talked about how her _boobs_ looked _amazing._ You’re lying, and fucking stupid, if you think her telling everybody about how _amazing_ her \*boobs \*looked wasn’t a comment on how _amazing_ her _boobs_ looked. Fucking offenderati schmuck. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > She said the shirt made her look good. She used the word “boobs.” Burn her at the stake! Yeah, whoever would think that you whiney wimps are talking about how she’s being oppressed? Saying that when she talks about how awesome her tits are that she should expect that she’s made it a topic of conversation truly means she should be burned at the stake. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > You have lost your mind, though. Why, because you’re a liar? Because your’e actually fucking stupid enough to argue that when a woman says she has awesome tits, that she didn’t say she has awesome tits? You’re a brainstem level offenderati idiot. You fucking wimp. And yeah, I assumed that instead of lying some more, as you evidently are prone to do, you were accusing me of “losing my mind” in the same exact way you’ve accused men to respond to Tracy talking about how sexually attractive her tits are as having done something wrong. My bad. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > I’m lying by telling you what I meant when I said something? No, I don’t think you’re using that word correctly. You are saying she deserved the rude comments. I don’t think she did. Rape was brought into it by YOU. You can stop any time. You going to stop lying any time? No? just keep up lying through your teeth? I already quoted how another poster said that rape and unwanted flirting were the same tactic and both horrible. I already pointed out how people used the phrase “she was asking for it.” You may be a coward and a liar, and pretty fucking stupid, but you’re not so stupid as to be unaware of what your’e making reference to when people respond to claims about flirting with “oh, so she was asking for it?” And as already pointed out, since you’re a liar, of course I don’t trust you when you say you meant something that’s totally at odds with the well known connotation of a loaded phrase that you use. That’s kinda what you being a filthy liar means, you idiot. You stupid, stupid liar. I suppose that if someone said “So, you were just following orders?” they wouldn’t be invoking Nuremberg? If someone said “So it just depends on what the definition of is, is” they wouldn’t be invoking semantic dodges? If someone says “Oh, so she was asking for it, eh?” they’re not invoking rape? You’re so full of shit your eyes are brown. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/289 "2009-03-21T19:19:36Z")
FinnAgain, thank you! At last I have found a use for the ignore function. Good day, sir! ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/290 "2009-03-21T19:20:10Z")
> [@Chase\_Ransom](#): > > This thread I think is about putting perspective on a fantastically broad claim she made, and at least at the beginning, trying to help her see that she overreacted. It seems like overall this thread seems to be people trying to deny that she was sexually harassed by further harassing her, some of it with sexually hostile language worse than the original offense. In order to helps someone see they overreacted they had to have overreacted in the first place. Some lecherous 50-something old man bringing up a the breasts of a woman 30 year his junior on a thread that had nothing to do with her breasts and then continuing to discuss her body parts after she told him to knock it off is sexual harassment. Period. If some people are too idiotic to see that, then that’s their problem. If they continue to talk about her breasts in hostile ways, including “she asked for it” style excuses, then they are guilty of harassment as well, and creating a totally hostile environment here for any serious discussion. Not only do I empathize with her disgust with the board for accepting this behavior, it’s going to be difficult to think of this place as being anything other than where some total assholes decided that sexual harassment is fine and ran off anyone who thought otherwise. Management is spotty here, but some people should be blocked by now until they learn that that shit is not only uncool but illegal. If they refuse to act like a reasonable adult then they should no longer be here, whether that’s voluntary or forced on them. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/291 "2009-03-21T19:21:48Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > FinnAgain, thank you! At last I have found a use for the ignore function. Good day, sir! Ooooh, good troll. First you lie through your teeth in order to piss me off, and then after you’ve accomplished your goal, you post “nyeh nyeh nyeh, now I can’t hear you anymore!” Go cram a porcupine sideways, you lying, shit-stupid, trolling cow. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/292 "2009-03-21T19:26:45Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Management is spotty here, but some people should be blocked by now until they learn that that shit is not only uncool but illegal. If they refuse to act like a reasonable adult then they should no longer be here, whether that’s voluntary or forced on them. Illegal? You are actually calling for people to have charges brought against them for unwanted flirting on a message board? Or at least you want them banned? What the fuck is wrong with you? The only thing worse than how thin skinned you offenderati are is how fucking stupid. Go ahead, explain how unwanted flirting on a message board violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Just try. Sexual harassment? Fucking bombastic offenderati twaddle. Tell you what, you can have anybody banned and reported to the FBI if they make unwanted advances to a cocktease who makes pointed, irrelevant reference to her hot tits as soon as the attention whore who deliberated trolled for offense is banned along with 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/293 "2009-03-21T19:28:23Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Management is spotty here, but some people should be blocked by now until they learn that that shit is not only uncool but illegal. . Oh reeeaaaly. Is the SDMB the government? Or an employer of Tracy Lord? I would argue no, and thus there is nothing illegal about one private citizen being a churlish jerk to another private citizen. Please explain yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/294 "2009-03-21T19:44:36Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ooooh, good troll. First you lie through your teeth in order to piss me off, and then after you’ve accomplished your goal, you post “nyeh nyeh nyeh, now I can’t hear you anymore!” > > Go cram a porcupine sideways, you lying, shit-stupid, trolling cow. You do realize that you’re becoming more hysterical with each post, right? Cram a porcupine sideways? How old are you? I believe what was implied earlier was not a comparison of flirting with rape, but the “asking for it” mentality. No, no one is saying that having rude comments is the same as being raped. I know some people want to twist it here and pretend that was said, but it wasn’t. No one here is that stupid to say it and I’m not going to pretend they are. The mentality of “asking for it” is the problem. Mention your boobs in a positive way? Oh no because now you’ve given permission to desperate and pathetic men who post here to make lewd comments about your boobs as long as they want to. No, you cannot take away your permission. You’ve opened the floodgate with mentioning them and it can’t ever be undone. Sorry, that’s your fault! Oh wait, you want them to be adults and stop because it is bothering you? Should have thought of that before you said your boobs looked amazing! They’ll stop when they tire of it and not a moment before. Wait, you want them to stop because it makes you uncomfortable? So sorry, but you started this! Ride it out! It doesn’t matter that it makes you feel bad, they enjoy doing it and you are the one who mentioned you have nice breasts! Forget that we could go and make comments to some women here who practically mention their breasts every chance they get and how magnificent they are, we’d rather bug you because you don’t like it. Oh you think that’s a childish way for a bunch of adults to act? Too bad, because you mentioned your boobs in this way and our enjoyment of mentioning your breasts outweighs your wish to have it stop. After all, we didn’t start this… you did! Now let me beat you to it and say OF COURSE I realize all of that was not said and some of it is exaggerated. Duh. But no matter how you try, you can’t polish a turd and what your increasingly hysterical responses boil down to is that you are defending the “right” of a few people who are choosing to make someone else uncomfortable when it really would just be the human thing to stop. You’d rather be “right!” than to say “You know, she shouldn’t have called it sexism but these guys really are kind of pathetic to keep this going.” Instead you’re going to continue to twist words, insult people, make strange wishes with porcupines, froth at the mouth, and be generally inflammatory because she “deserves” to have this happen because she brought up that her breasts look amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Chase\_Ransom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@Chase\_Ransom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chase_Ransom)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/295 "2009-03-21T20:02:01Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > You’re right. The people who bring up topics that they know make other people uncomfortable, won’t stop when asked to, and then rationalize it by saying that they can’t be expected to help it or that it’s the other person’s fault, are socially inept and have no manners. Maybe that’s what it’s about, not the man/woman thing. > > She overreacted, OK, I can accept that, but so did the people responding to her overreaction, by several magnitudes more than she did. See FinnAgain’s spittle-flecked ranting for proof. Good, you agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Chase\_Ransom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@Chase\_Ransom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chase_Ransom)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/296 "2009-03-21T20:03:36Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > It seems like overall this thread seems to be people trying to deny that she was sexually harassed by further harassing her, some of it with sexually hostile language worse than the original offense. > > In order to helps someone see they overreacted they had to have overreacted in the first place. Some lecherous 50-something old man bringing up a the breasts of a woman 30 year his junior on a thread that had nothing to do with her breasts and then continuing to discuss her body parts after she told him to knock it off is sexual harassment. Period. If some people are too idiotic to see that, then that’s their problem. If they continue to talk about her breasts in hostile ways, including “she asked for it” style excuses, then they are guilty of harassment as well, and creating a totally hostile environment here for any serious discussion. > > Not only do I empathize with her disgust with the board for accepting this behavior, it’s going to be difficult to think of this place as being anything other than where some total assholes decided that sexual harassment is fine and ran off anyone who thought otherwise. Management is spotty here, but some people should be blocked by now until they learn that that shit is not only uncool but illegal. If they refuse to act like a reasonable adult then they should no longer be here, whether that’s voluntary or forced on them. Sexual harassment? Illegal? I hate to have to do this but, please, back up those claims with cites and case law. Otherwise, stop being such a sensationalist. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/297 "2009-03-21T20:10:00Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > There’s at least 2 levels of conversation/disagreement going on here. One is the face value of this thread: X can’t mention x without expecting Y to refer to y . The other is “how do we refer to female body parts in general conversation? What misconstructions and misunderstandings come about when we do?” IOW, what happens when someone mentions x, meaning x[sub]1[/sub], but it is taken by someone else to mean y? And what about when X drags in x[sub]2[/sub]? How many x’s are there? And when does y ever get to be discussed or joked about? That’s the discussion I was hoping to have, without all the sidetracking of whether a particular poster is an attention whore, a cocktease, etc. > [@](#): > > But if they still think it’s ok to post whatever they were going to, then they should. Otherwise we are asking them to self-censor, which cannot be good for the board long-term. If women here expect the men to do otherwise, then we have become (again) the arbiters of acceptable behavior, the gatekeepers for those cavemen, if you will, and I doubt anyone wants that. Everyone should be in charge of themselves and responsible for their own behavior. Since women are expected to self-censor (don’t mention breasts unless you have a medical or parenting reason) why shouldn’t men be expected to do the same? Not of course that anyone here would care what I thought about them, but it’s a bit disconcerting to see someone who can discuss politics, music, and books knowledgeably turn into a teenage boy when a code word signals the lizard brain to come out and post. > [@](#): > > And perhaps the female Dopers here who are so up in arms about this relative tempest in a teapot should examine why they feel so strongly about this. **Traci Lord** is not a poster child for oppressed women. There’s plenty of sexism going around on all sides here. To the best of my knowledge, we have never had this discussion before and it’s quite possible that the frustration of some female posters has been building over time and now that they have the opportunity to speak, they have decided it’s time to do so. I personally don’t feel up in arms about it but I think it’s an interesting question. And I have to say that it’s been a real eye-opener to watch just how caveman-like some posters have turned out to be. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/298 "2009-03-21T20:14:15Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > You do realize that you’re becoming more hysterical with each post, right? When a liar trolls me, I’m perfectly able to tell her off in language that’s allowable for the Pit. Sorry if you don’t like it. And go figure, some cow lies and trolls me for seveal posts and then, like a grade school child announces “nyeh nyeh, I can’t hear you!” and you have not one single word to spare for her. Of course, maybe you buy into her sexist bullshit about how this thread is “women” against “the guys”, rather than people of both genders posting on both sides of the issue? I will also point out that the behavior you’re now engaging in is just about the lowest form of shit on the Dope. Person A posts, deliberately offensive, dishonest, trolling shit, Person B responds with an emotional reaction. People then tell Person B that they’re horrible, just awful for getting upset at the troll. Sorry, I couldn’t care less. > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I believe what was implied earlier was not a comparison of flirting with rape, but the “asking for it” mentality. So it wasn’t that she was comparing flirting with rape, just the excuses for flirting with the excuses for rape? Riiiiiight. That’s not equating flirting with rape, at all, Nopers. And the use of “Oh, she was asking for it”, historically one of the most recognizable justifications for rape in specific, was totally accidental. Gee, gosh, how’d that happen? They ‘accidentally’ chose a phrase which specifically evokes the most unsavory apologia for rape. Ya know, by accident. They had no idea. :rolleyes: Listen to yourself. Imagine if you had to discipline two high school kids who were fighting. And one person says “I hit him because he insulted me and started a fight”. Would “My god man! That’s the same excuse used by _rapists!_” be an appropriate response? One that didn’t conflate the situation with rape? But all of a sudden “My god man! That excuse for unwanted flirting is the same used by _rapists!_” Well, that’s the very height of intellectual discourse. And it totally doesn’t intend to conflate unwanted flirting with rape or those who obnoxious flirt with rapists. The fact that it clearly does that is just an unfortunate side effect. I will indeed buy that bridge in Brooklyn from you now. Oh, and, speaking of people twisting words? Funny that you can’t bring yourself to comment on the fact that she was actually claiming that “my boobs look _awesome_” wasn’t a comment on how her tits were hot. I guess this is the Partisan Cliquefest portion of the debate, and since she’s on your “side” you can’t mention her bullshit? > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > No, you cannot take away your permission. I’ve already pointed out that someone is well within her rights to tell people that they’re making her uncomfortable and they should stop at that point. I’ve also pointed out that it’s attention whoring, offense-trolling cockteasing bullshit for someone to post about how sexually attractive they are and then feign shock and moral indignation when people act as if the topic of conversation they’ve just brought up is a topic of conversation they’ve just brought up. > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > your increasingly hysterical responses boil down to is that you are defending the “right” of a few people who are choosing to make someone else uncomfortable when it really would just be the human thing to stop. No, the reason I am getting “hysterical” is because people are lying about what I’ve actually said. I don’t like to be lied about. Go figure. Ironically enough, you’ve just lied about what I said. What I actually said is not that people have any such right, but in fact that if they go over the line it’s bad and they’re being obnoxious. I did, however, point out that it someone doesn’t want something to be a topic of conversation, they shouldn’t bring it up on a public internet message board. Funny that you’re unable to deal with any nuance and have to lie and claim I’ve held a position which I have not. > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > You’d rather be “right!” than to say “You know, she shouldn’t have called it sexism but these guys really are kind of pathetic to keep this going.” You mean, like I already said? That men should stop if a woman says they shoudl, _and_ that women shouldn’t be all shocked and amazed when they make their hot tits public conversation and someone comments on them? You wonder why I ‘get upset’ when people act like you’ve just done, and lie about what I’ve actually said? It’s because liars are filthy. > [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Instead you’re going to continue to twist words, insult people, make strange wishes with porcupines, froth at the mouth, and be generally inflammatory Well, let’s see, as pointed out above you have to make your point by lying about what I’ve said. You insult me in the very same sentence you whinge about how I’ve insulted other people. So you’re a hypocrite who doesn’t even believe in what she’s saying, or take her own "side’ to task for the things she’s trying to pin on me. But I should totally take your bullshit seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/299 "2009-03-21T20:28:39Z")
Oh FinnAgain, you really are so predictable. Why should I spare a word for anyone’s ideas but my own? I’m sorry that you still want to talk about what someone else said, but I’m not concerned with that. I’m talking about what I said. And here’s a little tip for you when it comes to rape. One of the most horrible parts of rape is that the person who rapes you doesn’t give a fuck what you want. It’s the powerlessness of not having any say about what is done to you. It’s that a man is allowed to use your body for whatever he wants to and you (the owner of said body) has no say so. After that it’s the second guessing that people (including the police) give you. Are you sure you didn’t know this guy? Did you fight? Did you scream for help? They don’t _say_ that you asked for it, but they sure ask you about your behavior in the situation. It is absolutely hilarious when people use evolution and MILLIONS OF YEARS to make excuses for bad behavior today. Why is it okay to say the men can’t help their boob obsession because of MILLIONS OF YEARS of evolution, but a woman can’t have a similar reaction to the “she asked for this by mentioning her AMAZING BREASTS!!WTF111” You give the MILLIONS OF YEARS as some kind of defense. The bad behavior of a few men who won’t stop their stupidness is blamed on the girl who mentioned her AMAZING BREASTS. Nobody can even say ‘asked for it’ because it might make someone think of rape but you can blame evolution? Keeeeerist living in your head has to be a scary thing. Why are you trying to put me in a category on sides? Women vs men? Your side? My side? Ohhh it’s like the Jets and the Sharks! Snap your fingers to the crazy in your head FinnieBaby and pick a side. Seriously, you’re a loon from the word go. Come on back and give me some more of that crazy talk, I enjoy the smell of your brain frying. Come on, talk crazy to me! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/300 "2009-03-21T20:38:10Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Why should I spare a word for anyone’s ideas but my own? Like, you’ve avoided commenting on my ideas? Like you take me to task and also the person I was respond to? Troll away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=16)