# When is sexism okay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037 "2009-03-19T16:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/81 "2009-03-19T19:36:04Z")
What’s interesting is that people think this issue has a damn thing at all to do with ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/82 "2009-03-19T19:37:50Z")
Originally Posted by Jodi This is why I never mention my spectacular boobs in public. > [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > You just did. > > Now is this thread going to be about \*your \*boobs? I thought it was about **TL** ’s boobs. I’m so confused… I saw that too, but let it go, I’m in enough trouble as it is 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/83 "2009-03-19T19:38:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If you go into Great Debates and talk about the stimulus package if someone mentions your great boobs then you have an argument. Hey, baby! Check out _this_ stimulus package! {Thrusts hips lewdly} ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/84 "2009-03-19T19:40:20Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > Yes, because in my clear effort to actively point fingers at specific people I totally missed out on that one. No you did not. But you did miss a split infinitive which means that this thread is guaran-damn-teed to go on for another six pages at least unless the grammar police are out having donuts. Or shortbread with man-berries. \>shakes fist at sky\< damn you, &etc. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/85 "2009-03-19T19:40:27Z")
The more the merrier. Boobs, that is. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/86 "2009-03-19T19:47:49Z")
As long as it’s equal opportunity about male-female boobs, otherwise you are objectifying and being sexist. (have I got that right?) 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/87 "2009-03-19T19:49:14Z")
> [@Marienee](#): > > But you did miss a split infinitive… You show me your split infinitive, and I’ll show you my dangling participle. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/88 "2009-03-19T19:52:48Z")
> [@Marienee](#): > > No you did not. But you did miss a split infinitive which means that this thread is guaran-damn-teed to go on for another six pages at least unless the grammar police are out having donuts. Or shortbread with man-berries. There’s nothing wrong with splitting an infinitive. Just because you can’t physically do it in Latin doesn’t mean you shouldn’t in English. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/89 "2009-03-19T19:53:22Z")
To the OP: I posted what I did because it occurred to me that you might not have any siblings, in which case you might have missed the dynamic going on. In the interim it has once more become abundantly apparent that, lo, you have missed it so completely as not to occupy the same time zone that it does. That being the case: defining issues in such a way that the other person must accept their Fundamental Wrongness and also your Fundamental Rightness (not to mention shouldering responsibility for all the other wrongs you have suffered) is not an approach which lends itself to resolution of same. At least, not to positive resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/90 "2009-03-19T19:56:36Z")
See? I knew that would happen. **RNATB** : You’d be surprised at what I can physically do in Latin. Come on over when I get together with His Lordship over there. As long as I have my infinitive out I might as well take it for a spin around the block. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/91 "2009-03-19T20:06:12Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > This is one of those classic cases where someone asks you NOT to think of something and therefore it’s all you can think about. > > Anyone besides me been thinking about her boobs this whole time? I’ve been mulling over man berries myself. But I don’t really want to. The thoughts just won’t go away… ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/92 "2009-03-19T20:06:50Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > My favorite video camera makes my cock look like a baby’s arm. There’s a comparison I could have done without. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/93 "2009-03-19T20:13:15Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I’m thinking about pink elephants. Why, you reprobate pachydermist! Stop staring at her firm pink elephants! Can’t you see the lady’s sensitive about them? ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/94 "2009-03-19T20:14:18Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I was thinking about this part of your post some more, and I think part of it at least is that many of the women I know personally who are active in online communities fit the following criteria: > > [ul] > [li]Under 35[/li][li]Have more traditionally “masculine” interests and emotional responses[/li][li]Have a vested personal interest in being “one of the guys”[/li][/ul] > > Setting aside the rightness of the latter two characterizations, what that typically means for someone in my shoes is that my default assumption is that a female I meet online wants to be treated like I’d treat a guy friend–more bawdy or lewd humor, less self-censoring on my part, and generally a more relaxed manner. Couple this with the culture that a lot of people who are 30 or less have about the various -isms – every racist or homophobic joke I’ve heard in literally the last decade has come from a member of the class being insulted – and you have all the makings of a serious cultural gap with anyone who’s got any actual class or decorum. I barely fit item number one, quite possibly fit item number two–except when I don’t, and am unsure about item number three. I don’t particularly want bawdy or lewd humor but I generally deal with it by ignoring it/avoiding threads which contain excessive amounts. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with some of the posts which **Tracy Lord** has gotten in response to her advice threads–but I do recognize that to a certain extent she has brought it on herself. Certainly I agree with the posts which suggest that her reaction has caused people to identify where some of her buttons are located and people on the internet love poking buttons. At a minimum-- persons who want to promote the idea that they’ve got class or decorum would be ahead to not bring their own “amazing boobs” into conversation, no matter how innocently. But she did and discussion has ensued. What has been done can not be undone. But I’m not seeing any examples of horrible, horrible sexism in the comments which Tracy has complained about. Rather I see some attempts at teasing and/or flirtation which Tracy has not appreciated. That is her right, but this thread has not garnered her more sympathy from my corner. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/95 "2009-03-19T20:25:03Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > I’ve been mulling over man berries myself. > > But I don’t really want to. > > The thoughts just won’t go away… What do you put in mulled man berries? All the recipes I find include cardamon. I hate cardamon. ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/96 "2009-03-19T20:37:33Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Y’know, it could also be worse. People could be actively doubting the amazingness of **Tracy’s** boobs, like they openly disparage or accuse of lies any guy who talks about having a bigger-than-average wang in every thread I’ve seen on the topic. It’s just our veiled way of saying we want pictures, too. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/97 "2009-03-19T20:40:20Z")
I’m sorry, but your protests aren’t working for me. 1. It’s not that people are thinking that the red wine stain shirt is all about your boobs (which is not how I’m reading the posts anyway). It’s that you mentioned your boobs, and now are expecting other people to not mention your boobs. Not fair, and even more so, not realistic. If you want to talk about your boobs, even as a throwaway comment in a thread on another subject, you need to realize that people will then talk about them. 2. Now, I may be wrong about this because I’m not a writer or editor, but it seems to me that when you make a list of qualities, you generally go from the least important to the most important. Then you add in _italics_ or other font changes to increase emphasis even more. Even though the original thread wasn’t really about your boobs, you sure made an effort to draw attention to them, is all I’m saying. 3. Your definition of sexism and my definition of sexism seem to differ. My definition is “when someone brings up my sex or aspects of my sexual nature in a topic that does not have anything to do with sex, sexuality or sexual preference (especially in a derogatory or slighting manner)”. For example, if I ask a question in GQ about home repair and someone says “You’re just a woman, you wouldn’t understand”. Since meeting a cute guy is a topic of sexuality, your assertion that this was a sexist doesn’t pass my test. It seems to me that your definition of sexism means anytime someone talks about your sexual nature. If that’s the case, you might want to avoid threads that have anything to do with sexuality, such as the cute guy you just met. 4. Let’s face it, sexuality is a large part of our being. We can mute it for situations where it’s not appropriate, such as the workplace. And we can mute it where we don’t want to be treated as a sexual being. But acting as a sexual being, then insisting that other people mute their sexuality to make you more comfortable is not fair. 4b. People who are sexually attracted to women almost always like boobs, and that liking is pretty deep down in the lizard brain. If you say the word “boobs”, you’ve just turned on that lizard brain. If you mention boobs, don’t be surprised when you end up dealing with some rather scaly creatures. As a card-carrying member of the Big Boob Brigade, I can understand how frustrating it can be when people treat you like a body part. I get frustrated that there is very little middle ground between clothes that make me look fat, or clothes that make me look like I should be standing on a street corner with a bag of quarters. I have one necklace that is lovely. The first time I wore it to work, my favorite co-worker spent the day talking to my chest. I’ve never worn it to work since, because even though I don’t see it as a sexy necklace, the response I got said otherwise. Thus, if I want to be treated as a professional person at work, I leave it at home. > [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, good luck with that. You just showed everyone where your shiny, shiny buttons are. Expect them to be pressed repeatedly. > [@Tracy\_Lord](#): > > This makes no sense to me. Why would you do that? Because this is common [victim](http://www.ta-tutor.com/!dratri/xdrvp.htm) behavior in a [drama triangle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drama_triangle), and engaging in such behavior tends to draw out [persecutors](http://www.ta-tutor.com/!dratri/xdrpp.htm). One more thing - if you don’t want to be treated as a sexual person, try googling your user name and considering a name change. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/98 "2009-03-19T20:43:36Z")
If i casually mention my charlie browns in a thread will that make people start talking about them? cause that’d be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/99 "2009-03-19T20:44:13Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Regarding the first thread, if you bring up boobs, expecting people not to pick up on that mention and bring it up is a little silly. A reply can be good natured and well intentioned, because lots of women don’t mind or even encourage others to talk about their breasts. If you don’t, then no fault say sorry, you’re not comfortable going in that direction. If it persists after that (with some minor leeway given to just socially clueless guys a chance to do right), then it’s a problem. > > Second thread, yeah, mentioning boobs from another thread is creepy. And you were trying politely to get him off of that. Then he persisted. He might just be extremely clueless, but it was sexist at that point. But I think you handled it well there, saying you thought it was creepy. Moderators were right to step in. Problem should have been solved at that point. > > As far as this thread goes, WTF. Is there never a Pit thread where people attack the original poster? If we’re willing to forgive clueless sexist people who meant no harm we should be equally understanding to people who maybe don’t handle perceived sexism and actual sexism as well as the perfect standard some here seem to demand. > > Meanwhile, dba Fred has gone from creepy and possibly merely clueless to just a total asshole for not apologizing for the offense. Unless you intended to offend, being such a jerk about it makes no sense. Any claims to being a reasonable person goes out the window at that point. > > As far as the total fuckheads saying “get used to it or get the fuck out” or the like – how about you wastes of sperm get the hell off a board that’s supposed to be combating ignorance instead of indignantly wallowing in it? And I notice it’s largely the same idiots who cause problems in other threads with their desire to spread their incompetence around. It’s almost like they are, gosh, purposefully trying to be obnoxious on every thread they can or something? Isn’t there a name for that? Several names, really… > > Continuing unwanted sexual attention is harassment. There are plenty enough threads (or other boards for that matter) where that kind of attention is accepted and even wanted, so there’s no need to derail other threads with it. Like I said earlier, sometimes we can cross a line we didn’t know was there. It could be being over familiar, good natured joking, gentle teasing. Like I also said, the “target” of the teasing has the right to say “shut your damn mouth” (or STFU). That is when any person of good sense will back off. What is so complicated about this??!!??!!?? The lady wants us to STFU about it. let’s just DO that. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037/100 "2009-03-19T20:46:44Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Like I said earlier, sometimes we can cross a line we didn’t know was there. It could be being over familiar, good natured joking, gentle teasing. > Like I also said, the “target” of the teasing has the right to say “shut your damn mouth” (or STFU). That is when any person of good sense will back off. > > What is so complicated about this??!!??!!?? > > The lady wants us to STFU about it. let’s just DO that. How DARE you bring sensibility and politeness into this! Who exactly do you think you are? I mean, the lady opened the door to boob talk by mentioning why she loved her stained shirt so much and BY GOD it is now their right to continue it until they grow tired of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-sexism-okay/490037.md?page=6)