# When is tipping not 12%? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906 "2005-11-20T09:12:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/21 "2005-11-20T15:06:02Z")
> [@andrewdt85](#): > > I’m young, and I’m here to learn; ‘cheap’ is unfair a term :dubious:… Some advice, since you’re here to learn: _Reservoir Dogs_ is neither a documentary nor intended to be a source of characters on which you should model yourself. 😉 As a few cites, you can check out [this page](http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageRestaurant.html) (although its shoddy editing leads me, perhaps unfairly, to mistrust its advice). [This website](http://www.viptravelgroup.com/tippingguidelines.htm) appears to be run by a travel agency, although I’m having a little trouble parsing their “who we are” page (“travel management”? What the heck is that?) And [travelocity](http://dest.travelocity.com/Tips/Item/0,3295,295_TRAVELOCITY,00.html) also has a page on tipping. Everyone recommends 15-20% for a restaurant waiter, which jibes with what I understand to be the custom in the United States. On a personal note, if it’s a restaurant that I like going to, I’ll usually make the tip be between 20-25%. I figure that costs me an extra buck (I go to cheap restaurants usually), and it’s enough that the wait staff will think, “cool!” when seeing the tip, but not enough that they’ll be expecting huge tips every time I go. I want wait staff to be happy when they see me walk through the doors: in addition to making their lives slightly better, it means they’ll be more interested in making my life slightly better. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/22 "2005-11-20T15:09:10Z")
> [@](#): > > MR. WHITE I don’t tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that shit’s for the birds. As far as I’m concerned, they’re just doin their job. MR. BLUE Our girl was nice. MR. WHITE Our girl was okay. She didn’t do anything special. MR. BLONDE What’s something special, take ya in the kitchen and suck your dick? They all laugh. NICE GUY EDDIE I’d go over twelve percent for that. MR. WRITE Look, I ordered coffee. Now we’ve been here a long fuckin time, and she’s only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times. So, the comment was actually made by **Nice Guy Eddie** and it was what he said he would exceed if the waitress ‘sucked his dick’. As others here have offered, there never was a 12% figure in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/23 "2005-11-20T15:12:39Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > How is tipping related to the sales tax? Are tips taxed? Yes, at least in CA, but people are talking about using the tax listed on the bill as a guide for calculating the tip. We are a lazy nation when it comes to math… ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/24 "2005-11-20T15:14:10Z")
NICE GUY EDDIE Okay, everybody cough up green for the little lady. ``` Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table. Everybody, that is, except Mr. White. NICE GUY EDDIE C'mon, throw in a buck. MR. WHITE Uh-uh. I don't tip. NICE GUY EDDIE Whaddaya mean you don't tip? MR. WHITE I don't believe in it. NICE GUY EDDIE You don't believe in tipping? MR. PINK (laughing) I love this kid, he's a madman, this guy. MR. BLONDE Do you have any idea what these ladies make? They make shit. MR. WHITE Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit. Everybody laughs. NICE GUY EDDIE I don't even know a Jew who'd have the balls to say that. So let's get this straight. You never ever tip? MR. WHITE I don't tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that shit's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin their job. MR. BLUE Our girl was nice. MR. WHITE Our girl was okay. She didn't do anything special. MR. BLONDE What's something special, take ya in the kitchen and suck your dick? They all laugh. NICE GUY EDDIE I'd go over twelve percent for that. ``` I’m thinking, is it a California thing he’s referring to or what? Google indeed does not bring up much at all for ‘twelve percent’, so I don’t much know… keep in mind that my parents, while loving and supportive, were not good when it came to teaching me something like this; however, seeing as I’ve only been to a restaurant alone twice (and I tipped fine those times), and I tipped the cabbie fine, and I tipped the barber fine always, I think it’s okay. I didn’t just get 12 from the movie; my mom agreed w/ it, I think, at some point. Anyways, who cares, as long as I know 15 or 20 is right, now. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/25 "2005-11-20T15:14:39Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > OP - you have a lot of us scratching out heads. > > 15% is the normal mimimum tip for service workers like waiters and has been for a long time. > > 20% is the norm for above average service and many use it as their usual minimum. > > 10% is a slight for crappy service. > > 0% should be given for service that approaches bad. > > None of this has changed in the last decade or more and I have never heard of anything in the 12% range. Is this data skewed to restaurant type? Say just mostly Denny’s? Lot’s of uspscale? ---
**Author:** ![andrewdt85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71e660/32.png) [@andrewdt85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewdt85)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/26 "2005-11-20T15:19:15Z")
I started posting that before you guys did. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/27 "2005-11-20T15:23:23Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Is this data skewed to restaurant type? Say just mostly Denny’s? Lot’s of uspscale? Not really. It’s pretty much 15-25% across the board. So, yeah, you go to one of those $100 a head restaurants and you’re tipping twenty bucks a person, generally. I tend to tip 15% and round up, although I seem to recall a bunch of threads here on the Dope which suggested that a rate of 18% or 20% is slowly becoming standard, at least in certain urban areas. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/28 "2005-11-20T15:27:34Z")
I generally tip at least 20%. It can be higher if I’m in a coffee shop- I mean, I’m not leaving the waitstaff change! The 20% figure (at least for me) is for all levels of establishment, from coffee house to upscale dining. Obviously, if we are a large party and the server does a great job, they can expect a significant tip. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/29 "2005-11-20T16:06:41Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > How is tipping related to the sales tax? Are tips taxed? Tips are income, required by law to be reported and taxed as such. In establishments where tipping is traditional, such as restaurants, employers may pay less than the minimum wage. The law says that if the combination of the hourly wage and the tips don’t equal minimum wage, that the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Doesn’t always happen, however. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/30 "2005-11-20T16:10:41Z")
> [@andrewdt85](#): > > NICE GUY EDDIE > Okay, everybody cough up green for > the little lady. > > ``` > Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table. > Everybody, that is, except Mr. White. > > NICE GUY EDDIE > C'mon, throw in a buck. > > MR. WHITE > Uh-uh. I don't tip. > > NICE GUY EDDIE > Whaddaya mean you don't tip? > > MR. WHITE > I don't believe in it. > > NICE GUY EDDIE > You don't believe in tipping? > > MR. PINK > (laughing) > I love this kid, he's a madman, > this guy. > > MR. BLONDE > Do you have any idea what these > ladies make? They make shit. > > MR. WHITE > Don't give me that. She don't > make enough money, she can quit. > > Everybody laughs. > > NICE GUY EDDIE > I don't even know a Jew who'd have > the balls to say that. So let's > get this straight. You never ever > tip? > > MR. WHITE > I don't tip because society says I > gotta. I tip when somebody > deserves a tip. When somebody > really puts forth an effort, they > deserve a little something extra. > But this tipping automatically, > that shit's for the birds. As far > as I'm concerned, they're just > doin their job. > > MR. BLUE > Our girl was nice. > > MR. WHITE > Our girl was okay. She didn't do > anything special. > > MR. BLONDE > What's something special, take ya > in the kitchen and suck your dick? > > They all laugh. > > NICE GUY EDDIE > I'd go over twelve percent for > that. > > ``` > > I’m thinking, is it a California thing he’s referring to or what? > > Google indeed does not bring up much at all for ‘twelve percent’, so I don’t much know… keep in mind that my parents, while loving and supportive, were not good when it came to teaching me something like this; however, seeing as I’ve only been to a restaurant alone twice (and I tipped fine those times), and I tipped the cabbie fine, and I tipped the barber fine always, I think it’s okay. I didn’t just get 12 from the movie; my mom agreed w/ it, I think, at some point. > > Anyways, who cares, as long as I know 15 or 20 is right, now. Wasn’t it Steve Buscemi (Mr. Pink) who wouldn’t tip? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/31 "2005-11-20T16:28:14Z")
I saw a database online somewhere with regional averages for tipping. So the _Resevoir Dogs_ scene probably refers to the Los Angeles area, where I very specifically remember that the average tip (amongst those that tip) was 10%. In Michigan, I never, ever heard of 12%. That’s not a result of double-the-tax, either – sales taxes were only 4% until prop-A about 15 years ago, and the 15% rule was in place before that. I find myself usually tipping 20% and rounding to the next buck. But… I always forget that I’m adding that to the total bill, including the sales tax. I’ve got to remember not to do that. On the other hand, I always get excellent service from the same waitstaff that remembers us on next visits. “Excellent service” reminds me of something. If 15% is for average service, then what defines average? Subpar? In my part of the Detroit Area, subpar is definitely the average, and I’d hesitate to leave an “average” 15% (and I don’t go to those places again). What’s excellent service? As Mr. Pink said, well, that’s obvious, but for everyone else? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/32 "2005-11-20T16:42:38Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > All of this ‘double the tax rate’ and ‘confused by the tax rate’ stuff just baffles me. > > How damn hard can it be to figure 15% of something. Take 10% and add half again. > > Have we really sunk that low math-wise? > > As for me? 15% is what I tip. But I do include performance incentives. Taking 10% and adding half again is in what way better/easier/harder than doubling the tax (if in your state the tax is approx 8%)? Both calculations are comparable in difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/33 "2005-11-20T16:53:20Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Tips are income, required by law to be reported and taxed as such. In establishments where tipping is traditional, such as restaurants, employers may pay less than the minimum wage. The law says that if the combination of the hourly wage and the tips don’t equal minimum wage, that the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Doesn’t always happen, however. How do you report tips? Is there some form to fill? How can the tax man find whether tips were reported or not? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/34 "2005-11-20T17:11:36Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > How do you report tips? Is there some form to fill? How can the tax man find whether tips were reported or not? I think you see the problem, emmm, benefit. Tipped workers are supposed to report tips as income on their income taxes and there are boxes for that. In reality, very close to 0% report all their tips. Instead they report some low number that is on the extreme low end of the believable side. Uncle Sam has no good way of proving otherwise and it is probably the most widespread and unchallenged form of tax fraud. ---
**Author:** ![butler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@butler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/35 "2005-11-20T17:13:39Z")
Tipping is twice the tax. It’s easier to calculate than any other way. And it works out to 16.5% here. In Alaska, where there’s no sales tax, nobody tips. They are knows as “stiffs” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/36 "2005-11-20T18:36:25Z")
Moved to IMHO. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/37 "2005-11-20T19:02:38Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Taking 10% and adding half again is in what way better/easier/harder than doubling the tax (if in your state the tax is approx 8%)? Because it’s easier to look at the receipt and find the Total at the bottom than to root around for the finer type of the Tax amount. Preach it, Brother Chance! ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/38 "2005-11-20T19:42:38Z")
The script posted above is wrong. In Reservoir Dogs, Mr. Pink (Steve Buscemi) was the character who didn’t believe in tipping. In America, 15% is the societal norm, 20% is ideal. I’m sorry, but if you leave 12% for average-or-better service, that’s just cheap. And sales tax never has anything to do with it. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/39 "2005-11-20T20:00:06Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > How do you report tips? Is there some form to fill? How can the tax man find whether tips were reported or not? As **Shaggy** noted, it is reported on your 1040. Unless specifically excluded from taxes (such as COLA), ALL income is taxable, including ‘payment-in-kind’ (such as that Corvette you won in a contest). My dad was a bartender, and I’m sure almost none of those coffee cans full of quarters were reported. ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906/40 "2005-11-20T20:11:09Z")
> [@andrewdt85](#): > > I’m young, and I’m here to learn; ‘cheap’ is unfair a term :dubious:… No excuse. I’m young, poor, in graduate school and a waitress. If you can’t afford to tip _at least_ 15%, you can’t afford the restaurant. It’s just a given, my friend, and your ‘youthful ignorance’ won’t make up for your lousy tip when I wait on you. And fwiw, it’s completely declasse to tip poorly when out on a date. …Could it be that Quentin Tarantino movies aren’t the ideal source for all life’s lessons? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-is-tipping-not-12/331906.md?page=3)