# When it comes to signatures, how messy is TOO messy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829 "2009-11-08T19:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/21 "2009-11-09T02:44:59Z")
Well this is the signature of the Treasury Secretary > **[File:Timothy Geithner signature.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timothy_Geithner_signature.svg)** > > Original file ‎(SVG file, nominally 179 × 61 pixels, file size: 5 KB) > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file. and it isn’t too far off from mine. I showed this to my wife the other day and she said it looks very much like my signature. So I figure if it is good enough for the secretary of the Treasury it is good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/22 "2009-11-09T04:01:48Z")
Pardon me for tossing this into GQ, but I just wanted to mention that I seem to be one of the few adults out there who spells out his name in his signature. I often have people try to take credit card receipts away from me before I’m done because I actually separately sign my first name, then middle initial, then last name. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/23 "2009-11-09T04:17:35Z")
Thanks for the responses so far. That’s a good point about the X; I guess I just figured that might have evolved over the years with technology. Also, just to clarify, her signature could in no possible way be mistaken for an actual name. It literally just looks like someone drew four loops. > [@Chickenwrangler](#): > > Is her covering letter signed with the same squiggles? We’ve only been dealing so far with emails and phone calls, so her signature is the only writing of hers I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Tyger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Silver\_Tyger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Tyger)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/24 "2009-11-09T04:26:12Z")
My signature never looks the same and is only marginally legible. I figure a handwriting specialist would find it obvious that they’re from the same person. I get as far as ‘Si’ and then scrawl out the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Chickenwrangler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chickenwrangler/32/91_2.png) [@Chickenwrangler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chickenwrangler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/25 "2009-11-09T05:30:26Z")
Don’t know how “legal” you want to go with this, maybe you are a trusting person and don’t worry too much but I would get some confirmation that it is in fact her signature. Perhaps she could send a letter of confirmation with her current address on it and signature with name printed below, or a scan of driving license or back of bank card just to confirm the signature. May sound a bit paranoid but if she is genuine she will have no problem with the requests and it will save you feeling foolish if you have to rely on the squiggly signature for proof and she claims it is not hers. I have no legal knowledge at all, perhaps some one with more knowledge can chip in and give an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/26 "2009-11-09T05:36:12Z")
My signature is completely legible and you can make out every letter. I imagine it would probably be easy to forge it, but that’s the way I’ve always signed it. ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/27 "2009-11-09T09:50:31Z")
INAL but if I recall correctly it’s not the signature that’s important but the fact it was you who signed it (in theory as long as there’s enough detail about the signature it’s possible to prove who wrote it via handwriting analysis, but that’s a moot point legally as there are other ways to prove who actually signed the document). My own signature is simply a squiggle anyway. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/28 "2009-11-09T14:57:01Z")
I was beaten to the punch on the “mine isn’t, and it’s not a problem” answer, so instead I started a [poll.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539234) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/29 "2009-11-09T17:13:07Z")
Mine is a few random squiggles, which have been mocked for years and years. On the other hand, the last two times I bought a house (and I don’t think you’ll ever sign your name more in one sitting), mine was the only signature in the pile that was the same at the start and end of the process. Everyone else’s got progressively illegible. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/30 "2009-11-09T17:34:57Z")
I worked in a lab that required us to label reagents we had made with our signature. This is so if there was a problem with the reagent we knew who to go to about it. One day a fellow chemist picked up one of the reagents I made and loudly asked; “Who the hell is number 14?” I wound up marrying her. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/31 "2009-11-09T17:49:28Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I wound up marrying her. So, you’re saying you were very thoroughly punished for your poor signature? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![bare](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bare/32/471_2.png) [@bare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bare)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/32 "2009-11-09T18:50:33Z")
The last time the tavern I frequent sold and changed hands, the new owner refused my check because of the shorthand. I have code for nearly every slot on a check. At his direction I wrote out the full name of his business and spelled out my signature. The bank refused it as a forgery. Next time I visited he accepted a new abbreviated check and hasn’t given me grief since. I love small towns that actually look at the checks and know the author. Some years ago I had to travel to a branch bank 100 miles from here to pick up and cash a large contracting check. I had to cash it on the spot to pay the other members of the co-op, so the banker got on the phone to call my local branch and they went through a very formal description of my signature to confirm it. I don’t know why a faxed copy wouldn’t have been more accurate, but their process was formal enough, you could tell that there was some training behind it. It’s interesting to see how my signature has changed over the years. From fully spelled out, and progressively worse each year. These days, I probably sign my name more than a 100 times a day and it takes me a second each time. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/33 "2009-11-09T20:18:11Z")
Here’s a [Straight Dope Staff Report](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2864/does-it-matter-if-you-sign-a-contract-with-a-name-thats-not-your-own) by Gfactor that seems relevant to this thread. Essentially it confirms what **ivn1188** , **jtgain** , **Bisected8** and others have said here. ---
**Author:** ![Add99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Add99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Add99)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/34 "2009-11-09T23:36:17Z")
My son signs his name in block print. My friend signs his in the cursive you learned in school exactly. Both seem way to easy to forge. Mine is a scrawl. As a result, I received a package addressed to “Energy”. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/35 "2009-11-10T19:19:54Z")
The folk wisdom I learned on the subject is that if your signature is essentially your name, legibly rendered in your own handwriting, it is more difficult to forge – because the forger has to be able to imitate your actual handwriting style, and not just a bumpy line or a few squiggles. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/36 "2009-11-10T19:53:04Z")
I did work with somebody once who signed her name in very legible, elegantly rendered handwriting, in mirror image. Lord knows how long she had to practice to be able to write backwards as well as forwards. Apparently, she DID use it as her official signature on legal documents. And no, she didn’t remind me of Leonardo Da Vinci in any other ways. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/37 "2009-11-11T00:51:58Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > The folk wisdom I learned on the subject is that if your signature is essentially your name, legibly rendered in your own handwriting, it is more difficult to forge – because the forger has to be able to imitate your actual handwriting style, and not just a bumpy line or a few squiggles. > > YMMV, of course. See, I have great handwriting (she says modestly), but people often ask me if I’m middle eastern because “that looks Arabic” (my own style of capital letters and two specific squiggles). I _can_ write my name very nicely, but that’s not my signature. And I’ve seen people try to fake my signature and it never looks right, even to them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/38 "2009-11-11T05:39:24Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I worked in a lab that required us to label reagents we had made with our signature. This is so if there was a problem with the reagent we knew who to go to about it. > > One day a fellow chemist picked up one of the reagents I made and loudly asked; “Who the hell is number 14?” Don’t feel bad about illegible writing, **Sigene**. A little while back, I was in a Bishopric meeting (Bishop, the other Counselor, and me) and I was taking my notes in English while the other Counselor was taking his in Korean. The topic was seminary. In Korean it looks like this: 세미나리. As soon as we Counselors had written that one word, the Bishop stopped talking, looked at one paper, then the other, then shook his head, and said, “That’s awful! These two words look identical the way you guys write!” > [@](#): > > I wound up marrying her. Cool! ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/39 "2009-11-11T22:48:44Z")
I recall having to sign some set of documents at closing. I was told that I needed to sign my name as it appeared printed on the documents, which had my first name, middle initial, and last name. I told them that this was not my signature – which does not include the middle initial, and never has. Nevertheless, they still wanted that initial. Made no sense to me. What I signed on all those docs doesn’t match anything on my driver’s license, passport, credit cards, or anything else that identifies me. Anyhow, I still retained my scrawl – in a manner of protest: > [@](#): > > R\_\_\_\_l\_\_ K F\_\_\_ Rather than: > [@](#): > > Rivulus K Fish ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829/40 "2009-11-12T18:38:27Z")
**rivulus** , they did that to me too at closing! “You need the initial.” “Why? I never use my initial. I never sign things with my initial.” “You just do.” Most of my signatures on the house documents are now two clear names with a tiny initial squeezed in there, since I forgot it most times and guess what, I don’t use my initial! Don’t screw up someone’s automatic muscle memory, guys! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-it-comes-to-signatures-how-messy-is-too-messy/516829.md?page=3)