# When Jesus comes back, how will we know it’s really him? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404 "2005-01-18T19:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/41 "2005-01-20T12:22:39Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > He’ll be the one who walks up to Bush, slaps him across the face, and says “not in my name you don’t”. Snort. Nice one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/42 "2005-01-20T12:31:53Z")
He will have a network TV show where each week he will perform miracles and do other Jesusly things until we all catch on. Unless it tanks the first week, then it will be dropped and he’ll need another plan. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/43 "2005-01-20T12:37:47Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > He will have a network TV show where each week he will perform miracles and do other Jesusly things until we all catch on. Unless it tanks the first week, then it will be dropped and he’ll need another plan. He’ll appear on the Spong & Funk-hosted version of “Who’s Your Daddy?” Contestants- Yosef ben-David, the Roman soldier Panterus, or the Big G ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/44 "2005-01-20T13:48:49Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > He’ll appear on the Spong & Funk-hosted version of “Who’s Your Daddy?” > > Contestants- Yosef ben-David, the Roman soldier Panterus, or the Big G I can see the sardonic humor in this, but honestly, Ted, this one’s beneath you! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/45 "2005-01-20T13:58:43Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I can see the sardonic humor in this, but honestly, Ted, this one’s beneath you! Sorry, but reading BORN OF A WOMAN just fed my Inner Torquemada. OK, how about Celsus & whoever wrote the Toledoth Yeshu? ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/46 "2005-01-20T16:25:49Z")
Perhaps we’ll recognise him by the wisdom of his teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/47 "2005-01-20T18:26:40Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > He will have a network TV show where each week he will perform miracles and do other Jesusly things until we all catch on. Unless it tanks the first week, then it will be dropped and he’ll need another plan. It shall be called Savior Time. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/48 "2005-01-20T18:51:49Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But tell me, in your opinion, why is it that **zev steinhart** and **cmkeller** , two men of great devotion to God, do not accept Jesus? > > The answer that **I** have is that, in their considered view, what He did while here did not fulfill the expectations that Judaism had, and has, for the Messiah. In short, He didn’t fix everything, bring in the Kingdom of righteousness and peace, mete out the just desserts due those who oppressed and harmed His people… > > And that’s exactly what Sunday School told me that Jesus is gonna do when He comes back. > > He didn’t do it the first time – instead, He taught how to love, how to rise above the problems of this world and be a moral, caring person in a less-than-moral-and-caring world, and finally, how to give all of yourself for the benefit of others. That second paragraph evokes a secondary question: How will the Jews know when the Messiah shows up that he is the real deal? Nevertheless, that last paragraph seems to convey what I think is closest to reality. There will be no corporeal return or heaven-sent apocalypse. We have been given everything we need to know; it is up to us all to apply it in order to "… fix everything, bring in righteousness and peace … " and avoid any apocalypse of our own making. . ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/49 "2005-01-20T20:43:12Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > He’ll be the one who walks up to Bush, slaps him across the face, and says “not in my name you don’t”. :golf clap: ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/50 "2005-01-21T01:58:11Z")
> [@jebert](#): > > That second paragraph evokes a secondary question: How will the Jews know when the Messiah shows up that he is the real deal? > > . I was told theres a verse which says “Those who had pierced him will see”, which I take to mean He will still have that spear wound in His side, so it’ll be kindof obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/51 "2005-01-21T02:00:03Z")
He’ll be the pissed off Jewish guy who walks up to the Vatican and overturns a table in their financial department. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/52 "2005-01-21T04:33:09Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > I was told theres a verse which says “Those who had pierced him will see”, which I take to mean He will still have that spear wound in His side, so it’ll be kindof obvious. I presume you are talking about Psalms 22:7? If so, then that is not the correct answer, for two reasons. Firstly, we don’t view Psalm 22 as talking about the messiah. Psalm 22 is a psalm composed by David dealing with a person (perhaps himself) in a troubling situation. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the messiah. The reason that this verse came to be associated with the messiah in Christian thought was because Jesus is said to have uttered a line similar to verse 2 on the cross. Secondly, the word “pierced” does not appear in the Hebrew. The Hebrew word there is _k’ari_ which means “like a lion” (the prefix “k’” in Hebrew means like or about). The psalmist is saying that his tormentors are at his hands and feet like a lion. This fits in with the other animal imagery used in the rest of the psalm: “Like many bulls” in verse 13, “a lion” in verse 13, “dogs have surrounded me” in verse 17, “from the hands of a dog” in verse 21, “from the mouth of a lion” in verse 22 As to how we will know the authenticity of the messiah is actually very simple. If someone shows up who meets the qualifications and performs the tasks a messiah is supposed to, then he’s it. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/53 "2005-01-21T16:29:23Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The fundies would just nail Him to the cross again for preaching love and compassion for the weak and the lost. Hate to disillusion you, but Jesus was as “fundie” as they come. He was a biblical literalist: Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. " He was a young earth creationist (or creator in His case): John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. " He believed in a literal eternal hell: Mark 9:33-34 “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” I could go on all day, but I have made my point. As to the OP, I (a fundie :eek:) believe that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for the saved, and that He will come again to receive them unto Himself. It will be obvious to those who know Him and are known by Him. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/54 "2005-01-21T16:38:30Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > He was a young earth creationist (or creator in His case): > John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. " But that doesn’t say when 🙂 WAG: He’d appear as revolutionary to us now, as he did to people then. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/55 "2005-01-21T16:46:37Z")
Zev, actually he was citing Zechariah 12:10. > [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I presume you are talking about Psalms 22:7? > > If so, then that is not the correct answer, for two reasons. > > Firstly, we don’t view Psalm 22 as talking about the messiah. Psalm 22 is a psalm composed by David dealing with a person (perhaps himself) in a troubling situation. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the messiah. The reason that this verse came to be associated with the messiah in Christian thought was because Jesus is said to have uttered a line similar to verse 2 on the cross. > > Secondly, the word “pierced” does not appear in the Hebrew. The Hebrew word there is _k’ari_ which means “like a lion” (the prefix “k’” in Hebrew means like or about). The psalmist is saying that his tormentors are at his hands and feet like a lion. This fits in with the other animal imagery used in the rest of the psalm: > > “Like many bulls” in verse 13, > “a lion” in verse 13, > “dogs have surrounded me” in verse 17, > “from the hands of a dog” in verse 21, > “from the mouth of a lion” in verse 22 > > As to how we will know the authenticity of the messiah is actually very simple. If someone shows up who meets the qualifications and performs the tasks a messiah is supposed to, then he’s it. > > Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/56 "2005-01-21T16:59:56Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Hate to disillusion you, but Jesus was as “fundie” as they come. > He believed in a literal eternal hell: > Mark 9:33-34 “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” > > I could go on all day, but I have made my point. > > As to the OP, I (a fundie :eek:) believe that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for the saved, and that He will come again to receive them unto Himself. It will be obvious to those who know Him and are known by Him. I agree with you except about Jesus being a Young Earther, but He was/is definitely a Creationist & Creator, AND also RE Hell- the Mark passage is actually a quote from Isaiah 66: 24- – King James Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. – American Standard Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the dead bodies of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. – New International Isaiah 66:24 “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” The worms & fire do not afflict immortal souls of rebels. Rather, they consume their corpses. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/57 "2005-01-21T17:11:45Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Zev, actually he was citing Zechariah 12:10. Ah, thanks for the correction **FriarTed**. I don’t know Zechariah off the top of my head well enough to comment at this time. Maybe after _shabbos_. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/58 "2005-01-21T17:35:54Z")
[Jewish commentary](http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq084.html) on Zech. 12:10. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/59 "2005-01-21T18:00:19Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Ah, thanks for the correction **FriarTed**. Check out Zechariah 13:6 as well. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404/60 "2005-01-21T18:07:10Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > As to the OP, I (a fundie :eek:) believe that Jesus has gone to prepare a place for the saved, and that He will come again to receive them unto Himself. It will be obvious to those who know Him and are known by Him. Do you believe this return will be in the flesh here on Earth or in a spiritual sense in perhaps some other dimension? If you believe it will be here on Earth, how can you be sure you are not following a poseur? I believe that as fallible humans we are capable of being taken in by those with merely earthly powers of persuasion and come to “know as truth” that which is not. Cite? Witness Jonestown and the group that committed suicide to rendezvous with Comet Kahoutek a few years back. I have to think that the return is already happening daily in the spiritual sense for those who remain aware of his message and practice it. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-jesus-comes-back-how-will-we-know-it-s-really-him/285404.md?page=4)