# When leaders talk in private... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 17, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857 "2018-01-17T21:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/21 "2018-01-18T21:54:40Z")
If there’s a concern about harm to the reputation of the United States, why is the President allowed to say anything? Every third word out of his mouth hurts the standing of our country. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/22 "2018-01-18T22:12:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Again, this is not to absolve Trump. But I don’t see much difference - in the specific context of harming the US - between him and the Democrats who broadcast this remark. (If you don’t think the remark hurts the US and are just concerned about racism, then that’s something else. But your post is focused on the harm to the US aspect, and here I think the Democrats are probably more to blame, if anything.) That ship sailed long ago. If this was a one time thing then sure, it would probably be better if the senators kept it to themselves. But it isn’t for Trump. He revels in this stuff and has been saying shit of this caliber since before the election. More, after he said this, [he called some of his friends to brag about what he said.](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368967-conservative-writer-trump-called-friends-to-brag-about-s-hole) Trump was hardly trying to keep this under wraps. So for the dems it is merely another thing to add to the pile of reasons that Trump is unfit for the office. I am not sure what harm is left to be done to the US reputation since Trump took office. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/23 "2018-01-18T22:46:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Except he is the president of the United States. With that comes a certain level of decorum. If nothing else it is in his interest to not piss off other countries with talk like this since he may have to negotiate with them someday. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That ship sailed long ago. > > If this was a one time thing then sure, it would probably be better if the senators kept it to themselves. > > But it isn’t for Trump. He revels in this stuff and has been saying shit of this caliber since before the election. More, after he said this, [he called some of his friends to brag about what he said.](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368967-conservative-writer-trump-called-friends-to-brag-about-s-hole) Trump was hardly trying to keep this under wraps. > > So for the dems it is merely another thing to add to the pile of reasons that Trump is unfit for the office. I am not sure what harm is left to be done to the US reputation since Trump took office. So, if no more harm can be done, then Why should Trump worry about further pissing off other countries with such talk, per the first quote , above? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/24 "2018-01-19T00:39:35Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > On Trumps “shithole” comment, one aspect of this is he didnt say it “officially”, it was said during a closed meeting with members of congress. He probably thought everything would be “off the record” so to speak. Well it wasnt and people blabbed what was said. How dumb does he have to be to think that anything he said there would be “off the record?” Did he not realize that he’s sharing a table with people who hate him and want, more than anything, to see him fail? Plus, a bunch of Democrats were there, too! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/25 "2018-01-19T00:49:30Z")
He was going back on his promise to sign a bill presented to him. He threw a little tantrum intentionally, and it worked. Very little discussion about another one of his failures and another broken promise while plenty of discussion about what came out of his upper shithole. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/26 "2018-01-19T01:55:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How dumb does he have to be to think that anything he said there would be “off the record?” Did he not realize that he’s sharing a table with people who hate him and want, more than anything, to see him fail? > > Plus, a bunch of Democrats were there, too! Made _me_ laugh. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/27 "2018-01-19T03:27:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But ISTM that the Democrats are also at fault. Because Trump did not tweet this out to the world, he said it in a gathering of politicians. And if you genuinely believe that this harms US interests, as you suggest, then even political opponents should not go about broadcasting it to the world. The fact that they did so implies that they care more about scoring political points than they do about harming the country. 😕 Do you think foreigners needed this latest tidbit to conclude that Trump is a nasty and ignorant leader? They already knew this; Trump’s remark just helped them focus part of their anger. Exposing Trump serves an important and useful function. Americans and foreigners become aware that there is resistance within America; that there is hope for the future. Imagine how much greater the hatred against America would be if there were no Americans actively working to expose and frustrate this horrid man. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, if no more harm can be done, then Why should Trump worry about further pissing off other countries with such talk, per the first quote , above? I’m confused by this comment, which seems predicated on a non-standard model of Trump motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/28 "2018-01-19T08:14:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree that Trump should tone it down a lot. No dispute on that. > > But ISTM that the Democrats are also at fault. Because Trump did not tweet this out to the world, he said it in a gathering of politicians. And if you genuinely believe that this harms US interests, as you suggest, then even political opponents should not go about broadcasting it to the world. The fact that they did so implies that they care more about scoring political points than they do about harming the country. > > Again, this is not to absolve Trump. But I don’t see much difference - in the specific context of harming the US - between him and the Democrats who broadcast this remark. (If you don’t think the remark hurts the US and are just concerned about racism, then that’s something else. But your post is focused on the harm to the US aspect, and here I think the Democrats are probably more to blame, if anything.) He is an adult, he shouldn’t need anyone to temper his words. It just proves he is as big an idiot as I thought. The dems have no fault in this. The man continues to hang himself, eventually it will take and it’s ‘good-night Gracie’!! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/29 "2018-01-19T09:20:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How dumb does he have to be to think that anything he said there would be “off the record?” Did he not realize that he’s sharing a table with people who hate him and want, more than anything, to see him fail? > > Plus, a bunch of Democrats were there, too! I actually think it’s plausible that he didn’t exactly know who Dick Durbin was. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/30 "2018-01-19T15:47:02Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I actually think it’s plausible that he didn’t exactly know who Dick Durbin was. If DD introduced himself as the diplomat of Alderaan to Trump, Trump would have probably believed it. I didn’t used to think that way, but I do now. I used to tell people “I think he is smarter than he is letting on” but I really don’t anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/31 "2018-01-19T16:12:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That got me thinking, do we know or even want to know what is said by our leaders behind closed doors? Occasionally microphones have picked up the odd vulgarity or phrase. I remember how surprised people were when the Nixon Oval Office tapes were made public and how many curse words we heard. I also know persons who knew Harry Truman and they said he could cuss up a storm. I think of the time a comment at a South Carolina school board meeting made international news (can it really be) 20 years ago. He was pushing for the 10 Commandments to be posted in every classroom in the state–when someone (jokingly, amongst Good Ol’ Boys) pointed out that some people would complain about that, [Dr. Henry Jordan](http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/12/813-henry-jordan.html) said ["Screw the Buddhists and kill the Muslims – and put that in the minutes!](https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oh%2C+Henry!-a053996785)" He was displeased when this audio was released. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/32 "2018-01-19T20:13:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, if no more harm can be done, then Why should Trump worry about further pissing off other countries with such talk, per the first quote , above? Thinking on it more I have come to the conclusion it probably doesn’t matter one whit to other countries. Sure they will act outraged and bloviate about it but that is about it. Realpolitik makes for odd bedfellows and being called names won’t stop them from striking deals that are in their interest. What Trump does do is embarrass us (US citizens). It’s like you bringing your girlfriend to family events and your crazy uncle is always there going on some rant or other. Your girlfriend won’t leave you because of that but you find you have to keep making apologies to her for your uncle’s behavior. One real effect Trump’s behavior does have is it is [lowering tourism to the US.](https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/travel/2017/12/01/trump-slump-tourism-down-almost-percent/0wlE4t5PBE0TKKnld95dXI/story.html) That is a loss to many businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/33 "2018-01-20T07:07:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree that Trump should tone it down a lot. No dispute on that. > > But ISTM that the Democrats are also at fault. Because Trump did not tweet this out to the world, he said it in a gathering of politicians. And if you genuinely believe that this harms US interests, as you suggest, then even political opponents should not go about broadcasting it to the world. The fact that they did so implies that they care more about scoring political points than they do about harming the country. > > Again, this is not to absolve Trump. But I don’t see much difference - in the specific context of harming the US - between him and the Democrats who broadcast this remark. (If you don’t think the remark hurts the US and are just concerned about racism, then that’s something else. But your post is focused on the harm to the US aspect, and here I think the Democrats are probably more to blame, if anything.) If the comment was a side comment, then maybe it should not have been released. Though Trump is an idiot to think he could say something like that in the presence of leaders of the opposition and not think it would be leaked. Even Nixon didn’t do that. His nasty comments were made only to the ears of his closest aides. But Trump torpedoed the immigration deal because he did not want people from these shithole countries admitted. And I think that is plenty of reason for the Dems - and for moral Republicans - to quote him. What if he said something similar about Jews in the context of aid to Israel. Or saying that the government should cut off funding of food stamps for Arkansas because it is a shithole place? Would you still object to his words being released? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/34 "2018-01-20T07:10:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Thinking on it more I have come to the conclusion it probably doesn’t matter one whit to other countries. > > Sure they will act outraged and bloviate about it but that is about it. Realpolitik makes for odd bedfellows and being called names won’t stop them from striking deals that are in their interest. In the old days of American hegemony, probably not. But now we are competing with the Chinese. Any deal is going to require some trust. What leader of an African nation in his right mind is going to trust the US with this racist in charge? They might also reject deals based on emotion, but rejecting one based on lack of trust is also likely. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857/35 "2018-01-20T07:27:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In the old days of American hegemony, probably not. But now we are competing with the Chinese. Any deal is going to require some trust. … TPP was America’s best chance to delay Chinese ascendancy. Trump’s renunciation of that will contribute _far_ more to America’s decline than the S\*\*\*hole slip. (Of course the Sandernistas share blame for America’s unfortunate turnabout on TPP.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-leaders-talk-in-private/806857.md?page=1)