# When painting with a BROAD BRUSH, do you think of Catholics as leaning Right or leaning Left? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999 "2013-11-15T17:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/1 "2013-11-15T17:54:17Z")
I’m looking for your general impression, so no need to worry about hedging or qualifying your answer. Since we’d need an _especially_ broad brush to address the global population of Catholics, feel free to limit your broad brush to your impression of Catholics in your own country- but let us know how much actual direct interaction you’ve had with Catholics. I grew up Catholic in the northeast U.S., coming of age in the late 80s/ early 90s. Pretty much everyone I grew up around was fairly left-leaning. Even though my siblings and I went through the Catholic school system, the adults in the family were all very pro-education, had the highest respect for teachers, and considered a strong well supported public education system to be a foundation for a better society. The popular bumper sticker about schools having all the funding they needed and the military having to have a bake sale to buy a tank, this was a bumper sticker I saw a lot of growing up. There was always a strong sense of social justice. Charity and volunteer work were valued, but not as an _alternative_ to government action. Charitable work was considered a collective social responsibility. Any rhetoric about “moochers” or “lazy” poor people was not tolerated. In terms of values to be lived by, there was always a major adherence to “whatever you have done for the least of my brothers . . .”. Abortion? Sentiment varied, but I never knew anyone to picket a clinic and those who did picket were seen as mean spirited. Some felt personally that abortion was wrong but they felt that it should not be legislated against. Some felt personally that it was wrong, but they’d never cast their vote based on that one issue alone. Others were more unreservedly pro-choice. Homosexuality? The absolute _harshest_ rhetoric I ever heard about homosexuality was “love the sinner, hate the sin”. Mostly though, it wasn’t treated as something that needed to be addressed. There wasn’t much push back _against_ anti-gay sentiment, but there was a general emphasis on the idea that we can not know the mind of God and it is not for us to judge others. The whole idea that only God can judge was pretty pervasive. It actually kinda applied to abortion as well. Really, it was deemed to be pretty bad to go about casting judgement upon others and announcing just who would be going to hell. So, those were the values instilled in me while growing up. I chose as a teenager to leave the Catholic Church but that was for theological reasons. The underlying _values_ still resonated for me. This impression of Catholics stayed with me through early adulthood. Even as recently as ten years ago, I heard about a friend’s brother-in-law who left the Catholic Church because the Church was _too tolerant of homosexuality_: basically, he found out that a cousin was gay. This caused a lot of anger in him. He went to his parish priest to talk about this anger he felt toward his cousin for being gay. The priest told him that _his anger was the problem_, that his cousin was simply being true to himself, that God still loved and accepted the gay cousin, and so on. The guy was so angry to be told that _he was the problem_ and not the gay cousin, that he left the Catholic Church and joined a new Church that would validate his anti-gay feelings. _Within the past ten years_, however, I’m beginning to wonder if Catholic culture had significantly changed . . . or if it was just that I grew up in an anomalous liberal bubble within Catholic culture. The first story that really hit me as a WTF moment was during the 2004 election when some Catholic Bishop had announced that if John Kerry came to his Church he would refuse to issue communion to Kerry because of Kerry’s pro-choice record. I was really surprised to hear this. This sounded like something that would come from “those crazy evangelicals”, not from a Catholic. Sure, anti-abortion was not a new sentiment, but that a Church leader would insert himself into the political dialog based on this one single issue? I wrote it off as one blowhard shooting his mouth off. But then I started noticing it more and more. I put “those crazy evangelicals” in quotes up above, because within the culture that I grew up, T.V. preachers and any kind of rhetoric about hellfire and brimstone, _any calling out of others as being “sinners”_ was seen as cuckoo for coco puffs (remember, this Thread is _supposed to be_ about painting with a broad brush). In the past ten years, I’m seeing more and more of Catholics standing alongside Evangelicals and Fundamentalists in public political discourse. This is a major cultural disconnect for me. I grew up in a culture that practically canonized John F. Kennedy- he was the first Catholic POTUS, he was “our guy”. I grew up basically thinking Catholic = Democrat. I wouldn’t have _recognized_ someone like Rick Santorum. And today, I see this story on CNN: [Illinois Bishop Plans Gay-Marriage Exorcism](http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/15/illinois-bishop-plans-gay-marriage-exorcism/?hpt=hp_t3). W!? T!? F!?!?!? Although, I must admit that I am less shocked than I would have been 10 years ago. Anyway, to make a long Thread short (too late!). Since I left the Catholic Church more than 20 years ago, I am pretty much out of touch with current Catholic culture. I’m wondering what the general consensus is. Is it a matter of left-leaning people like me have left the Church therefore only the right-leaning people remain? Or has there been a general cultural shift? Or did I just grow up in an anomalous bubble? All of my family who are still practicing Catholics are just as left-leaning as they ever were- probably more so. So I do not need it explained to me that generalizations make an ass out of you and me. I am just curious about what is the first impression that comes to mind when you hear the word “Catholic”. So, _when painting with a BROAD BRUSH_, do you think of Catholics as leaning Right or leaning Left? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/2 "2013-11-15T17:59:09Z")
US, left. I think the events of the last few years have shown that most American Catholics are well to the left of the Church on social issues. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/3 "2013-11-15T18:03:07Z")
I was raised Catholic (7 years of Catholic school) and it wouldn’t have occurred to me that this could even be a question. They lean \*way \*right. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/4 "2013-11-15T18:04:36Z")
Ha! The very first two responses oppose one another! I should have added a Poll for this Thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/5 "2013-11-15T18:07:41Z")
I’m not Catholic, FTR, but I know heaps. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/6 "2013-11-15T18:12:27Z")
My broad brush general impression is that Catholics are a prime example of why categorizing people on a one-dimensional, left-vs-right scale, doesn’t work real well. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/7 "2013-11-15T18:20:09Z")
Catholics are not as rabid as some evangelical sects, and one could discuss \*how \*right they lean…but that they might not lean right at all? I don’t get it. You don’t have to express your conservative beliefs in the absolute most extreme, fucked-up way for them to still be conservative. > [@bienville](#): > > The whole idea that only God can judge was pretty pervasive. It actually kinda applied to abortion as well. The Catholic high school here expels girls who have abortions (whether or not they’re Catholic, which not all of the students are). ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/8 "2013-11-15T18:20:25Z")
I’m a Catholic in Minnesota, and I think **Thudlow** above me has it most right. My general impression is that Catholics tend to lean left on most issues. That being said, a pretty good number (probably exceeding 50%, in certain demographics), are single-issue voters on abortion and thus vote Republican despite their disagreement on most issues. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/9 "2013-11-15T18:23:30Z")
Left, socially. Rightish… institutionally. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/10 "2013-11-15T18:30:57Z")
A [2009 Gallup poll](http://www.gallup.com/poll/117154/catholics-similar-mainstream-abortion-stem-cells.aspx) showed that US Roman Catholics, as a whole, were more left-leaning in their social views than Americans as a whole. Non-church attending Catholics were actually more liberal than non-church attending non-Catholics on several issues (premarital sex, children born out of wedlock, gambling). Now Catholics with regular church attendance were more conservative than the “average” American but more liberal compared to other church going non-Catholics. And, of course, what the laypeople believe is likely a bit removed from doctrine or teachings from the pulpit. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/11 "2013-11-15T18:32:06Z")
It depends on which specific issues you are interested in. Right or left isn’t a single issue, so I think of Catholics differently on different issues. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/12 "2013-11-15T18:32:53Z")
I’d definitely say right (conservative.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/13 "2013-11-15T18:34:13Z")
Despite my family, I see Catholics as being a bit left of center. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/14 "2013-11-15T18:40:42Z")
It seems to me that Catholics were, at least until recently, were more likely to be Democrats than Republicans. However, I think that’s changed to a certain degree in recent years. For instance, the whole “Obamacare is paying for contraception” is a Catholic issue, not a Protestant issue. And while Catholics are probably more likely than Protestants to be more socially liberal, I think they’re still pretty strongly conservative on several issues, particularly abortion, and to some extent gay rights. And speaking to my own experience, I live in Northern Virginia, which is a pretty liberal area, and I can’t think of any Catholics I know who aren’t Republican, but I also don’t know very many, so I don’t think that’s particularly representative. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/15 "2013-11-15T18:44:44Z")
As a current example of a Catholic who reflects the culture in which I came of age . . . [Here is a Stephen Colbert interview with Sister Simone Campbell (VIDEO link).](http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/415112/june-11-2012/radical-feminist-nuns---simone-campbell) [Here’s a wiki link for anyone who doesn’t want a video link.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Campbell) She’s an example of what my broad brush impression of Catholics would be based upon my experiences growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/16 "2013-11-15T18:48:54Z")
I see the Catholic _religion_ as conservative socially and liberal economically. (Using U.S. terminology.) If you ask me what the average Catholic individual believes, however, I would say he is probably liberal in both areas. Because the average Catholic does not seem to follow the rules of his religion. I personally don’t see how he can hold such an incoherent position with a good conscience… but apparently he does. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/17 "2013-11-15T18:50:01Z")
I don’t know of any Catholics who are at all serious about their religion who aren’t Republican either. Man, I would hate to live in a place where Catholics are considered lefties. Actually, I think the only Republicans I know are Catholic (except my sister, who was raised Catholic like I was, but now is just hoping to find a church that only condemns the things she’s not really into herself anyway, like homosexuality, and is cool with premarital sex and stuff). ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/18 "2013-11-15T18:50:41Z")
When I was going to Catholic grade and high schools in the 60s, definitely leaned left. Very left. However when things like abortion and gay marriage became planks of the Democratic Party platform, things started swinging towards the right. I’ve been to Catholic Masses around election time where the priests walked a fine line by telling people to pray about the upcoming elections and abortion. They didn’t want to get in trouble with tax laws by politicking from the pulpit, but you could tell what they were hinting at. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/19 "2013-11-15T19:02:00Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I don’t know of any Catholics who are at all serious about their religion who aren’t Republican either. Man, I would hate to live in a place where Catholics are considered lefties. I grew up Catholic, and had the complete Catholic education, from kindergarten through grad school. Catholic politics are extremely regional and demographic. In Chicago and surrounding areas (especially east Chicago), you’ll find much more left-leaning Catholics, which coincides with a much more blue-collar demographic. Go out to suburbs of Kansas City or St. Louis, and you’ll find extremely right-leaning Catholics, which coincide with middle- to upper-middle-class midwesterners. Go to Boston, and you’re going to find liberal Catholics (think the Kennedys, John Kerry, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999/20 "2013-11-15T19:03:42Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > I’ve been to Catholic Masses around election time where the priests walked a fine line by telling people to pray about the upcoming elections and abortion. They didn’t want to get in trouble with tax laws by politicking from the pulpit, but you could tell what they were hinting at. They can tell you to vote pro-life all they want from the pulpit. What they cannot do is tell you to vote for John Smith (R), the pro-life candidate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-painting-with-a-broad-brush-do-you-think-of-catholics-as-leaning-right-or-leaning-left/673999.md?page=2)