# When people babble about "microaggressions", their real goal is censorship. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455 "2015-06-13T19:56:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/141 "2015-06-15T00:50:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Policing microaggressions is too big a step. Can they start with nanoaggressions? How about we call them quantumaggressions? It’s not actually either an aggression or not an aggression (or its both) until the observer decides one way or another… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/142 "2015-06-15T01:51:04Z")
Buried under the resentment and simple substantive disagreement with the goals of the modern left that account for most of the OP’s rhetoric, there is a sliver of truth there. There really is a growing trend among young leftists to favor shunning or ostracizing over open-minded engagement, and to look to concepts like harassment and threats to police speech that previously would have been considered stupid or controversial but not worthy of official notice. Yes, the trend is mostly limited to some college campuses and online spaces, and even there it is not the dominant mode. But I don’t think that makes it not a problem. Those are places where speech should be most free. Not that long ago on liberal college campuses, a white guy opining that affirmative action was racist would be certainly be met with people judging him to be ignorant or offensive. But the predominant belief was that this kind of guy needed to be engaged and educated. And that both sides might come out ahead for having engaged in good faith even if no one was persuaded in the end. As should be obvious, not everyone who now agrees with anti-racism, or third wave feminism, or gay rights was persuaded of those ideas in high school. A lot of people came to be persuaded of those ideas in college. But a substantial part of the modern campus left wants to treat anyone outside leftist orthodoxy with contempt and shunning instead of open-minded engagement. I have some theories about why this happened, but this post is already too long. Mostly I wanted to say that if you haven’t spent significant time on a college campus or with college academics in the last decade, you might not be aware of where things have moved. And you shouldn’t take the musings of folks like the OP to mean that there’s nothing wrong. Stopped clocks and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/143 "2015-06-15T01:51:15Z")
That’s offensive to the feline community. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/144 "2015-06-15T02:19:41Z")
Chronometer-Americans are also offended… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/145 "2015-06-15T02:23:22Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Buried under the resentment and simple substantive disagreement with the goals of the modern left that account for most of the OP’s rhetoric, there is a sliver of truth there. There really is a growing trend among young leftists to favor shunning or ostracizing over open-minded engagement, and to look to concepts like harassment and threats to police speech that previously would have been considered stupid or controversial but not worthy of official notice. Yes, the trend is mostly limited to some college campuses and online spaces, and even there it is not the dominant mode. But I don’t think that makes it not a problem. Those are places where speech should be most free. > > Not that long ago on liberal college campuses, a white guy opining that affirmative action was racist would be certainly be met with people judging him to be ignorant or offensive. But the predominant belief was that this kind of guy needed to be engaged and educated. And that both sides might come out ahead for having engaged in good faith even if no one was persuaded in the end. As should be obvious, not everyone who now agrees with anti-racism, or third wave feminism, or gay rights was persuaded of those ideas in high school. A lot of people came to be persuaded of those ideas in college. But a substantial part of the modern campus left wants to treat anyone outside leftist orthodoxy with contempt and shunning instead of open-minded engagement. > > I have some theories about why this happened, but this post is already too long. Mostly I wanted to say that if you haven’t spent significant time on a college campus or with college academics in the last decade, you might not be aware of where things have moved. And you shouldn’t take the musings of folks like the OP to mean that there’s nothing wrong. Stopped clocks and all that. Agreed. As much as the OP is riddled with exaggerations and logical fallacies (including an unnecessarily well-poising in the thread title), the current flap over Bill Maher speaking at Berkeley is good example of what you’re talking about. That is not to so that we can expect Bill Maher to be speaking at Liberty University anytime soon, but 2 wrongs don’t make aright. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/146 "2015-06-15T03:43:02Z")
> [@ITR champion's link](#): > > Labeling an assertive female committee chair/dean > as a “b\_\_\_\_,” while describing a male counterpart as a “forceful leader.” The proper, and usual, term for him is “asshole.” Have they never had a job? > [@](#): > > A person asks a woman her age and, upon hearing she is 31, looks quickly at her ring finger. Having been a single cis-male once, I have often been very interested in a woman’s marital status. Maybe that’s micro-aggressive. What I know can be micro-aggressive is when a woman does it, but I thought _The Mary Tyler Moore Show_ cured us of being judgmental about single women in the workforce. > [@](#): > > Shows surprise when a feminine woman turns out to be a lesbian. Define “surprise.” Are we talking raised eyebrows, or “I’d’ve never figured you for a dyke?” > [@](#): > > Being forced to choose Male or Female when completing basic forms./LGBT > categories are not recognized. What’s the current number of categories of Facebook, fourteen? Seems like an awkward number to manage, and for most things I don’t know why it’s asked. > [@](#): > > Female doctor mistaken for a nurse. The doctor, male, female, or whatever, should wear some MD flair. I spend a lot of time in hospitals and can usually peg them, but if everybody is wearing hospital-supplied scrubs I need to look for an attitude of superiority. 😉 ETA: And better, possibly inappropriate, shoes. > [@](#): > > A store owner following a customer of color around the store. [del]Funny[/del] story: Wife (micro-aggressive?)/POSSLQ (not entirely accurate)/spousal unit worked with a doctor born in India. The doctor complained that a clerk followed her around the store and thought the clerk didn’t like Indians. “Nope,” said Wife, “He probably thought you were a Gypsy.” Her word, not mine. Of course, I would have said “Roma.” I don’t know what that list has to do with students. I expect better of them. Their parents and grandparents, though, say that shit because they are clueless idiots. > [@Bone](#): > > Micro aggression is the next logical step in devaluing claims of actual bad behavior. Similar to calling everything under the sun racism, sexist, or some other bullshit for no reason, it weakens claims of actual bad behavior in a race to become the latest victim. > > Mockery is what is called for. Fuckin’ A! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/147 "2015-06-15T04:41:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Buried under the resentment and simple substantive disagreement with the goals of the modern left that account for most of the OP’s rhetoric, there is a sliver of truth there. There really is a growing trend among young leftists to favor shunning or ostracizing over open-minded engagement, and to look to concepts like harassment and threats to police speech that previously would have been considered stupid or controversial but not worthy of official notice. Yes, the trend is mostly limited to some college campuses and online spaces, and even there it is not the dominant mode. But I don’t think that makes it not a problem. Those are places where speech should be most free. > > Not that long ago on liberal college campuses, a white guy opining that affirmative action was racist would be certainly be met with people judging him to be ignorant or offensive. But the predominant belief was that this kind of guy needed to be engaged and educated. And that both sides might come out ahead for having engaged in good faith even if no one was persuaded in the end. As should be obvious, not everyone who now agrees with anti-racism, or third wave feminism, or gay rights was persuaded of those ideas in high school. A lot of people came to be persuaded of those ideas in college. But a substantial part of the modern campus left wants to treat anyone outside leftist orthodoxy with contempt and shunning instead of open-minded engagement. > > I have some theories about why this happened, but this post is already too long. Mostly I wanted to say that if you haven’t spent significant time on a college campus or with college academics in the last decade, you might not be aware of where things have moved. And you shouldn’t take the musings of folks like the OP to mean that there’s nothing wrong. Stopped clocks and all that. Agreed, and it goes a step further. Suppose this kid who disagreed with affirmative action was otherwise accepting of other races. His KKK grandfather told him growing up that blacks needed to be kept in their place or white people would be marginalized and be placed in the same position. This kid who has overcome his racist upbringing is now marginalized and shunned by his peers for having a reasonable political position that simply doesn’t fall in line with the far left at his school. In a perverse way, he may feel that his grandfather has been proven correct and that equality was never the goal, but the silencing of anyone who dares stand in the way of the latest racial policy to be adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/148 "2015-06-15T04:50:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Agreed, and it goes a step further. Suppose this kid who disagreed with affirmative action was otherwise accepting of other races. His KKK grandfather told him growing up that blacks needed to be kept in their place or white people would be marginalized and be placed in the same position. > > This kid who has overcome his racist upbringing is now marginalized and shunned by his peers for having a reasonable political position that simply doesn’t fall in line with the far left at his school. > > In a perverse way, he may feel that his grandfather has been proven correct and that equality was never the goal, but the silencing of anyone who dares stand in the way of the latest racial policy to be adopted. Except that “white people” aren’t being marginalized and silenced. Only white people who happen to be bigots and racists. It’s kind of odd how you get confused on the distinction between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/149 "2015-06-15T08:02:44Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Not that long ago on liberal college campuses, a white guy opining that affirmative action was racist would be certainly be met with people judging him to be ignorant or offensive. And this is where nonsense takes you. Affirmative action by it’s very definition is racist. It can’t be otherwise. It is discrimination whichever way you slice it but both those statements are utterly neutral. The knee-jerk reaction to having that fact merely stated does the debate no good at all and allowing such statements to be punished as “micro-aggressions” is idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/150 "2015-06-15T08:57:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And this is where nonsense takes you. > > Affirmative action by it’s very definition is racist. It can’t be otherwise. It is discrimination whichever way you slice it but both those statements are utterly neutral. > The knee-jerk reaction to having that fact merely stated does the debate no good at all and allowing such statements to be punished as “micro-aggressions” is idiotic. Ah, so you draw the line at white people being discriminated against, black people, you dont care ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/151 "2015-06-15T10:07:40Z")
Does Robert163 use a straw man app? I ask because the form is so consistent and anytime his post leads with some form of “So, what you’re saying is…,” what will follow “translates” the original post into bigoted nonsense. It’s a pretty tired schtick at this point… ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/152 "2015-06-15T11:03:20Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > I agree with the title of the thread. > > Today’s college campus libs and progressives are not interested in free speech, only approved speech. We approve of what you say, then you can say it. If not we will shut you down any way possible. This whole micro aggression bullshit is just another way to do so. Well, if your USA ‘free’ speech protection system actually works, then you have nothing to worry about. If not, why don’t you change the legal system? People have a right to talk about micro aggression. Do you want to stop them talking about it? What happened to their free speech? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/153 "2015-06-15T12:11:59Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Does Robert163 use a straw man app? I ask because the form is so consistent and anytime his post leads with some form of “So, what you’re saying is…,” what will follow “translates” the original post into bigoted nonsense. > > It’s a pretty tired schtick at this point… > [@](#): > > And this is where nonsense takes you. > > Affirmative action by it’s very definition is racist. It can’t be otherwise. It is discrimination whichever way you slice it but both those statements are utterly neutral. > The knee-jerk reaction to having that fact merely stated does the debate no good at all and allowing such statements to be punished as “micro-aggressions” is idiotic. And what about his statement makes you think he cares even 1% about the problems that AA is trying to fix? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/154 "2015-06-15T12:40:58Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > And what about his statement makes you think he cares even 1% about the problems that AA is trying to fix? This is not fair. His statement is definitional, and he claims that it’s neutral. You might dispute that characterization, but he nowhere states taht he doesn’t care even 1% about the problems that AA is trying to fix. If you’re curious about whether he cares, the correct thing to do is to ask, not to make a declaration of your own. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/155 "2015-06-15T13:45:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ah, so you draw the line at white people being discriminated against, black people, you dont care Where in my statement did I say that AA was a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/156 "2015-06-15T14:06:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Affirmative action by it’s very definition is racist. This is a semantic quibble, though, of the sort that gets worked out when two people engage each other openly and in good faith. AA is racial discrimination, surely. But American leftists generally reserve the term “racist” for policies that further white supremacy. Thus, to offer a trivial example, choosing a black actor to play Malcolm X is not racist. Increasingly, it seems that people on the right and the left aren’t even aware of this longstanding and fundamental divide between how each side thinks about racism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/157 "2015-06-15T14:21:55Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But American leftists generally reserve the term “racist” for policies that further white supremacy. This is the first time I have heard this. I’d be interested in hearing whether other posters here who self-identify as American Leftists agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/158 "2015-06-15T14:24:58Z")
It’s more than semantics. It impacts fundamental understanding of the entire concept of racism. The position you are espousing seems to condone some type of racist practices and condemn others. Do you have an issue with the lack of consistency? If not, I think that’s fine. There are perfectly valid reasons to feel that way. But it’s absurd to deny that AA is racist. I think the people who are okay with AA need to come to terms with the idea they are okay supporting racist practices against certain groups. It’s more than semantics - it’s a philisopgical difference. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/159 "2015-06-15T14:44:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s more than semantics. It impacts fundamental understanding of the entire concept of racism. The position you are espousing seems to condone some type of racist practices and condemn others. Do you have an issue with the lack of consistency? If not, I think that’s fine. There are perfectly valid reasons to feel that way. But it’s absurd to deny that AA is racist. I think the people who are okay with AA need to come to terms with the idea they are okay supporting racist practices against certain groups. > > It’s more than semantics - it’s a philisopgical difference. I think you’re conflating two issues. One issue is whether AA is _definitionally_ racist. That turns on how you define racism. It is a semantic question. The other issue is whether AA is good policy or not, turning in part on whether it is ever appropriate to discriminate on the basis of race. That is, of course, not just a question of semantics. As for the fact that I “condone some type of racist practices and condemn others,” I would just suggest that everyone does that when you define “racist” as any differential treatment on the basis of race. You, presumably, are OK with selecting a black actor to play Malcolm X. Or having a doctor put sickle-cell anemia higher in the differential diagnosis on the basis of race (an even better example because there race is just an imperfect proxy). That should point you to the problem with using the term in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455/160 "2015-06-15T14:52:11Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > This is a semantic quibble, though, of the sort that gets worked out when two people engage each other openly and in good faith. AA is racial discrimination, surely. But American leftists generally reserve the term “racist” for policies that further white supremacy. Thus, to offer a trivial example, choosing a black actor to play Malcolm X is not racist. Increasingly, it seems that people on the right and the left aren’t even aware of this longstanding and fundamental divide between how each side thinks about racism. For the sake of clarity I’d be happy instead to say that “AA is racially discriminatory” but I suspect those wanting to be offended will find reason enough in whatever term is used. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-babble-about-microaggressions-their-real-goal-is-censorship/722455.md?page=9)