# When people insist on using lower-case letters for their names. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386 "2011-09-06T14:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/101 "2011-09-07T19:47:49Z")
Standing on two feet is _just plain rude_! ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/102 "2011-09-07T22:10:47Z")
I’m surprised this thread has gone 3 pages without anyone posting this A bit of Fry and Laurie sketch: [Funny Hugh Laurie & Stephen Fry comedy sketch! 'Your name, sir?' - BBC - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/103 "2011-09-07T22:18:15Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I’m surprised this thread has gone 3 pages without anyone posting this A bit of Fry and Laurie sketch: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ) It hasn’t. At least not for me. You realize that every user has their own controls over how many posts there are on a page, right? You can have as few as five or as many as 200. There are some who see this as a one page thread and others who see it as a 21-page thread. Stating the number of pages in a thread is meaningless to anyone but yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/104 "2011-09-07T23:51:14Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The worst offenders are those who sign with just lower case initials. > mmm Oh yeah! People like that are all bastards! Wait, what? [del]Satchmo[/del] sAtChMo That’s my name, don’t wear it out! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/105 "2011-09-07T23:52:33Z")
Luckily, I’ve only met one person in real life who insisted on this sort of thing. It irritates me far more than it should- usually because it means I have to avoid starting a sentence with their name. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/106 "2011-09-08T04:01:35Z")
Personally, I’m not bothered a whole lot by this. I imagine she’ll encounter some ridicule from folks when she makes the request, so I’d say, “Fine,” and do my damnedest to remember. I wouldn’t feel terrible if I forgot it, but I wouldn’t intentionally capitalize it, either. This is pretty common among academics. I once applied for a job and the chair of the search committee was Suzy StaffordSullivan (pseud). I of course thought the ad contained a typo. Turns out that was her preferred spelling. Once I knew this I made a note of it. I guess I don’t see it as particularly difficult and it respecting someone’s wishes. It’s a little weird but I wouldn’t go out of my way and intentionally not follow her desire. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/107 "2011-09-08T12:21:13Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > How about names with apostrophes inserted, such as Tane’sha or Q’sha, or names like La-Von and such? I personally find them as pretentious as a lower-case name, but I’ll spell it any way the individual prefers. Do you find Marie-Claire O’Neill and Jean-Paul D’Souza pretentious, or does that rules not count when white people do it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/108 "2011-09-08T13:33:51Z")
I’ll refrain from answering the main question, but I will say that there is a difference. In those cases, the apostrophe is there because of actual grammatical or linguistic reasons, not just sprinkled in like grated parmesan. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/109 "2011-09-08T15:13:10Z")
The important thing to me is that changing your name from John to john does not actually CHANGE the name. I would be more likely to go along with the request if the person’s name was moonbeam when their birth name was John, because that is actually a change of name. A preferred lowercase letter does not in any significant way change the name, thus the pretension. But I probably would not start a sentence with their name in lowercase, that is a little much to ask me to violate such a basic rule of English intentionally to accomodate someone. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/110 "2011-09-08T19:00:05Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Remember Jerry terHorst, Ford’s press secretary? That name caused all kinds of problems. Also a lot of people with Italian names have different ways of spelling what was probably the same name back in the Old Country, e.g., DiFranco, di Franco, Difranco, etc. Don’t know for sure about Italy, but regarding French names, there’s a difference between being called say, De Mongivert or Demongivert on one hand and de Mongivert on the other hand. The latter implies nobility, while the two first examples don’t. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/111 "2011-09-08T21:34:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Do you find Marie-Claire O’Neill and Jean-Paul D’Souza pretentious, or does that rules not count when white people do it? I’ll ignore the underlying assumption there. I used those examples because they occured to me; I’d forgotten about names like O’Neil and D’Souza when I was typing my response. In the course of volunteer work in a predominantly African-American city, I run across “typical” AA names often so that’s what I used as an example. If there’s a historical or grammatical reason, for apostrophes, then no: not pretentious. Apostrophes in the names you mentioned are commonly-accepted contractions and have been used for centuries. But you prompted me to google around for reasons why African-American names often include apostrophes and I couldn’t find anything definitive. Except that it’s been a trend since the 1960s or so, and the apostrophes are not contractions but affectations. [This was interesting](http://www.behindthename.com/bb/fact/3171594), though. And, yes, if those are reasons, I consider them pretentious. But I still write them out however the owner of the name wants it written as long as I can practically do so. It’s their name. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/112 "2011-09-08T22:42:49Z")
If you say “I hate X” and then give a whole bunch of examples of X associated with one ethnic group while completely ignoring every example of X by another ethnic group, it sends a message. Anyway, welcome to history. There are plenty of historical reasons behind African-American names. It’s a young tradition, but there is really isn’t anything else it could be. African-Americans were largely involuntarily separated from their previous naming traditions, understandably often have little respect for outside naming traditions, and have synthesized a number of influences into an imaginative, expressive and unique naming tradition in record time. Two hundred years from now, little Q’sha will ask her mother where she got her name, and her mother will tell her a rich story about slavery, liberation, the civil rights movement, and the search for African-American identity. Pretty cool, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/113 "2011-09-10T13:08:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Two hundred years from now, little Q’sha will ask her mother where she got her name, and her mother will tell her a rich story about slavery, liberation, the civil rights movement, and the search for African-American identity. Pretty cool, huh? No. ---
**Author:** ![MeinView](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@MeinView](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeinView)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/114 "2011-09-11T20:19:55Z")
> [@Tiger\_Lily](#): > > A colleague of mine in academics spells, and asks all others to spell, her first and last names using lower-case letters. An example is bell hooks, or mary sullivan. As a traditionally schooled academic myself, I face great dissonance when typing her name. My tendency is to “properly” capitalize her name, but of course that is probably seen as oppositional. > > My question: When one chooses to disregard convention such as in this case, must others oblige by also disregarding convention? > > In the meantime I will continue to type her name out with first and last names capitalized. “Mary Sullivan, you are no bell hooks!” :rolleyes: Write: ^^ary 5ullivan, you are no 6ell #ooks just to piss your colleague off. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/115 "2011-09-11T21:26:25Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I’m surprised this thread has gone 3 pages without anyone posting this A bit of Fry and Laurie sketch: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ) Gosh _darn it_ I read through three pages (yes, 'twas 3 pages for me too, Mr. Wombat!) hoping no one would beat me to the Derek \_\_\_\_ sketch. And I didn’t even have to click on this link before I knew what you’d posted. FWIW I get oddly irritated when people spell my screenname with a capital letter, and I have _no_ idea why. But I certainly wouldn’t correct anyone because they’re following the normal conventions of the written English language. I’d follow whatever “mary” wanted, because I think people are entitled to have their name spelled or pronounced however they wish. But privately? Eye-rolling _will_ be occuring every time I do so. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/116 "2011-09-12T00:26:33Z")
In general, I’d persist with the accepted spelling, and blame spell check for it. I guess if I had to handwrite her name, I’d go along with her wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/117 "2011-09-13T21:08:23Z")
> [@choie](#): > > FWIW I get oddly irritated when people spell my screenname with a capital letter, and I have _no_ idea why. But I certainly wouldn’t correct anyone because they’re following the normal conventions of the written English language. Fair enough. I usually cut & paste a Doper’s screen names when writing one to avoid that sort of \*faux pas \*but would also feel weirdly uncomfortable beginning a sentence with a lowercase letter and would feel the need to re-word to avoid both capitalizing your screenname and the unorthodox orthography. > [@](#): > > I’d follow whatever “mary” wanted, because I think people are entitled to have their name spelled or pronounced however they wish. But privately? Eye-rolling _will_ be occuring every time I do so. Personally I figue if she’s going to insist that her name is not a proper noun then it’s referring to the class of mary sullivans rather than any particular instance of Mary Sullivan and would henceforth refuse to use any singular pronouns to refer to her.., sorry… I mean _ **them** _. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/118 "2011-09-13T21:13:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > No. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/119 "2011-09-14T03:47:46Z")
So I guess if someone thinks that claiming a gender that is different from your sex is pretentious, they’re free to address them by the pronoun they don’t prefer. Heck, since I actually think you guys are being pretentious with your names here, I can start calling you whatever I want. Either you call people what they want to be called, or you don’t. Deciding to call them based on how you judge their character is ridiculous. It opens the doors for other people to do the same thing–things you normally champion against. What was that you usually say? You don’t have to like it, but they are an adult and have a right to choose. Funny how that only applies to things you support. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386/120 "2011-09-14T06:18:36Z")
Calling someone ‘John’ instead of ‘john’ in writing is not calling them something different. It is the LACK of difference which is the pretention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-people-insist-on-using-lower-case-letters-for-their-names/595386.md?page=7)