# When philosophy and reality meet in tragic and unintended, unexpected circumstances **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703 "2015-09-27T15:54:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/21 "2015-09-28T16:15:44Z")
“The Stones naively hire Hell’s Angels” [http://moviesdvdnewreleases.com/gimme-shelter-1970.html](http://moviesdvdnewreleases.com/gimme-shelter-1970.html) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/22 "2015-09-28T16:32:22Z")
Rent control causes developers to stop building new housing because it isn’t profitable thereby exacerbating a long-term shortage of affordable housing. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/23 "2015-09-28T16:44:43Z")
\*\*When philosophy and reality meet in tragic and unintended, unexpected circumstances \*\* So in keeping with the OP, I’d say that the London School of Economics differs philosophically from the Chino Youth Correctional Center, and mutual undertakings between alumni should proceed with as few unexamined assumptions as possible. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/24 "2015-09-28T17:17:16Z")
People who die because they follow quack medicine. Anti-vaxxers. > [@Stoneburg](#): > > - Prohibition > - War on drugs > - Criminalization of prostitution > - Abstinence teaching > > The four first examples that come to mind where the actual outcome was exactly the opposite of the intended. It’s one thing to argue ancillary effects like corruption or an increase in organized crime, but I’m not sure what you mean by saying they had the opposite effect. The first three reduced the incidents of the illegal thing, as bans tend to do. Americans used to drink like fish. Imagine how many people would smoke up if it were legal. There were some prohibitionists who thought it would turn the country into a utopia, so I guess they missed the mark. I’m not sure if abstinence advocates generally care if there’s more STDs or pregnancies. Theirs is usually a moral or religious argument, not anything based on practical effects, IME (ditto prostitution - they don’t care if legalizing it would have X or Y effect). It’s like how someone can be against abortion and birth control. There’s no cognitive dissonance, it’s just different priorities than their opponents. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Creating gun-free zones that then get turned into shooting galleries. Yeah, it’s hard to have a gun free zone when your country is swimming in guns. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/25 "2015-09-28T18:19:13Z")
American thrift store companies shipping their unsold secondhand clothing to Africa is a well-intentioned charitable gesture that has had the unfortunate side effect of killing the local textile industry, thus contributing to keeping the very people they are trying to help cripplingly poor. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/26 "2015-09-28T19:07:08Z")
That reminds me of the old days, when explorers encountered stone age people, they would give them gifts, like metal tools (like a machete or ax), which seemed like a good idea, but later they found, to their horror, such rare and valuable things caused massive social unrest, problems with neighboring tribes, all kinds of conflict. It was like if aliens showed up, and the first people they met, they gave them billions of dollars of gold, casually, as a gift. Or, more to the point, they casually handed them some hand held nuclear weapons. The philosophy was “lets show them we are friendly, we can benefit them”, but in reality they upset the social order by handing them rare and powerful weapons and tools of immense value. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/27 "2015-09-28T19:16:16Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > That reminds me of the old days, when explorers encountered stone age people, they would give them gifts, like metal tools (like a machete or ax), which seemed like a good idea, but later they found, to their horror, such rare and valuable things caused massive social unrest, problems with neighboring tribes, all kinds of conflict. It was like if aliens showed up, and the first people they met, they gave them billions of dollars of gold, casually, as a gift. > > Or, more to the point, they casually handed them some hand held nuclear weapons. > > The philosophy was “lets show them we are friendly, we can benefit them”, but in reality they upset the social order by handing them rare and powerful weapons and tools of immense value. I don’t think this was unintentional though. The explorers wanted to upset the existing economic and social order which they weren’t a part of and they wanted to introduce products which they controlled the supply of. Basically they were tearing down the old order so they could replace it with a new order in which they held a favorable position. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/28 "2015-09-28T19:20:31Z")
The USA’s entire prolonged middle eastern adventure hasn’t been mentioned yet? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/29 "2015-09-28T20:10:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think this was unintentional though. I was thinking of the anthropologist in South America. Certainly many other instances were deliberate. But I was considering the unintentional effects they caused. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/30 "2015-09-28T20:37:21Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > People who die because they follow quack medicine. Anti-vaxxers. > > It’s one thing to argue ancillary effects like corruption or an increase in organized crime, but I’m not sure what you mean by saying they had the opposite effect. The first three reduced the incidents of the illegal thing, as bans tend to do. Americans used to drink like fish. Imagine how many people would smoke up if it were legal. There were some prohibitionists who thought it would turn the country into a utopia, so I guess they missed the mark. > > I’m not sure if abstinence advocates generally care if there’s more STDs or pregnancies. Theirs is usually a moral or religious argument, not anything based on practical effects, IME (ditto prostitution - they don’t care if legalizing it would have X or Y effect). It’s like how someone can be against abortion and birth control. There’s no cognitive dissonance, it’s just different priorities than their opponents. > > Yeah, it’s hard to have a gun free zone when your country is swimming in guns. Actually prohibition increased the problem with alcohol abuse just as the war on drugs has increased the problem with abuse of narcotics. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703/31 "2015-09-28T23:37:58Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Yeah, it’s hard to have a gun free zone when your country is swimming in guns. On the contrary–it’s quite easy. If you count up all the schools, malls (virtually every mall in the US has a corporate policy banning weapons), government offices, etc., I’m sure that there are well over 100,000 gun-free zones in the nation. **Enforcing** that when a criminal decides to go on a spree is the hard part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-philosophy-and-reality-meet-in-tragic-and-unintended-unexpected-circumstances/732703.md?page=1)