# When Pope John Paul II becomes a Saint, what will he be called? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416 "2007-04-02T13:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/1 "2007-04-02T13:17:03Z")
Will he be Saint Wojtyła the Great? or Saint Karol of Wadowice? or Something with the John Paul in it? Jim ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/2 "2007-04-02T13:25:15Z")
What makes you assume he’ll become a saint? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/3 "2007-04-02T13:32:49Z")
He’s well on the way. [The Vatican announced yesterday](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/faithvalues/2003647002_pope02.html) they were closing the investigation on his life, which means he’s on the fast track It would probably be similar to St. Pius X: St. John Paul II ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/4 "2007-04-02T13:34:26Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] What makes you assume he’ll become a saint? [/QUOTE] He already has a Cause at the Vatican. (“Cause” is the technical term for “officially recognized advocacy group for beatification and/or canonization.”) To answer the question, one need look no further than a list of the Popes – many of them are already canonized. And a canonized former Pope is known by his Papal title with “Pope” replaced by “Saint,” as for example St. Pius X, née Giuseppe Sarto, Pope from 1903 to 1914 who advocated frequent Communion (as opposed to non-communicating attendance at Mass) and was canonized in 1954. A small town parochial high school in my area dedicated at that time was named in his honor, as St. Pius X High School. So presumably he will not be St. Karol Wojtyla but St. John Paul II if canonized. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/5 "2007-04-02T13:35:43Z")
I’d say just St. John Paul. No need for numbers in my book since JP 1 was not a saint. Perhaps this warrants a thread of its own, but what would be a scientific explanation for the case of Sister Marie-Simon-Pierre, cured of Parkinson’s after praying to JP2? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/6 "2007-04-02T13:36:27Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] What makes you assume he’ll become a saint? [/QUOTE] Sorry, they have been fast tracking him to Sainthood or Beautification. [Here are a lot of news articles on it.](http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=pope+John+paul+II) Thanks \*\*RealityChuck \*\* & **PolyCarp**. This makes sense and looks like the correct answer. I am not up on Saints and I was curious after hearing he took the next step. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/7 "2007-04-02T13:36:41Z")
The first phase of his beatification proceedings has just finished. The reports I’ve read are in Spanish, I imagine there will be similar ones in English-language newspapers. Benedict XVI already gave a waiver to start the proceedings only two months after John Paul II’s death, without waiting the usual five years. According to the reports I’ve read, there are rumors that he will jump over the Beatus stage, directly to Saint. Here, [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/04/02/pope.sainthood.reut/index.html) (I haven’t read that one) On preview: JPI is a Beatus, so both could end up being declared Saints. Also, please remember that the Church doesn’t “make” anybody a Saint; like marriage, sainthood is made by God and the Church recognizes it. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/8 "2007-04-02T15:12:24Z")
:smack: Didn’t know about the fast-tracking (obviously), and was thinking he’d get the standard five-year treatment. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/9 "2007-04-02T15:29:08Z")
St. George Ringo ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/10 "2007-04-02T16:33:26Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I’d say just St. John Paul. No need for numbers in my book since JP 1 was not a saint. [/QUOTE] Ah, but then it’s going to be confusing as hell if, after Pope John Paul II is made a saint, a bunch of miracles get attributed to Pope John Paul I and he gets named a Saint as well. Then Pope John Paul I would be Saint John Paul II and Pope John Paul II would be Saint John Paul I. And you thought keeping track of who’s who in the Trinity was complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/11 "2007-04-02T16:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > On preview: JPI is a Beatus, so both could end up being declared Saints. And even if he weren’t, we might someday have another Pope John Paul who could be canonized. It’d look pretty silly to have the recent one called just “Saint John Paul”, and the next one “Saint John Paul III”. Further on what **Nava** said about God making saints, strictly speaking, a saint is any person who’s in Heaven. So when a person refers to “My sainted grandmother”, that person is saying that Gramma is in Heaven. What the Church does is canonize saints, which literally just means writing their name on a list. But there’s the general presumption and hope that there are a lot more people in Heaven who aren’t on the lists. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/12 "2007-04-02T17:33:19Z")
As long as it came up, can anyone tell me why JP I is a candidate for Beautification? It surely was not for his time as Pope. Jim ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/13 "2007-04-02T17:50:43Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] As long as it came up, can anyone tell me why JP I is a candidate for Beautification? [/QUOTE] Well, after being in the grave for lo these 29 years, he probably needs a _little_ bit of beautifying. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/14 "2007-04-02T17:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Well, after being in the grave for lo these 29 years, he probably needs a _little_ bit of beautifying. [/QUOTE] **Tom** , did I screw up the term or was that just a weak joke? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/15 "2007-04-02T17:59:14Z")
As for why he was put forth for beatification: he was known as a pius man with a great deal of humility, inspiring his friends and those over whom he administered while bishop and archbishop to request that he be canonized. He was never put on the fast track, but a (some?) reported miracle(s) in the late 1990s got his name into the process in, I think, 2002 or 2003. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/16 "2007-04-02T18:00:05Z")
To name someone as blessed is to beatify, no u. ETA: (And the joke was clearly weak.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/17 "2007-04-02T18:07:50Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] As for why he was put forth for beatification: he was known as a **pius** man with a great deal of humility, inspiring his friends and those over whom he administered while bishop and archbishop to request that he be canonized. He was never put on the fast track, but a (some?) reported miracle(s) in the late 1990s got his name into the process in, I think, 2002 or 2003. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=tomndebb] To name someone as blessed is to beatify, no u. ETA: (And the joke was clearly weak.) [/QUOTE] Thanks for the info and the correction. I have misspelled that my entire life, not to mention post 6. BTW: Gaudere’s Law? Pius = pious 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/18 "2007-04-02T18:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Ah, but then it’s going to be confusing as hell if, after Pope John Paul II is made a saint, a bunch of miracles get attributed to Pope John Paul I and he gets named a Saint as well. Then Pope John Paul I would be Saint John Paul II and Pope John Paul II would be Saint John Paul I. And you thought keeping track of who’s who in the Trinity was complicated. [/QUOTE] You’re right. JP1 could be made a saint. One never knows, JP1 might well be known for being something other than the William Henry Harrison of popes. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/19 "2007-04-02T18:39:34Z")
LOL – The minions of **Gaudere** strike again. No Pope has been _Pius_ since 1958, though one hopes they were in fact _pious_. For the record, the “numbering system” implied by **Malodorous** ’s post has never been used. My statement that the regnal name as Pope, with “Saint” replacing “Pope,” is used, was intended to be taken literally. Popes Pius VI, VII, VIII, and IX have not, so far as I can tell, been canonized – but St. Pius X is St. Pius X because he was Pope Pius X. Recognition as a saint in other communions, by the way, follows the same basic procedure, but without the intricate examination and official pronouncement of the Vatican: local people who knew the _sanctabile_ profess devotion to him/her and informally recognize his/her sanctity; this is then confirmed by the Bishop or the official synod having jurisdiction, in very nearly the Catholic process. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416/20 "2007-04-02T18:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] BTW: Gaudere’s Law? Pius = pious 😉 [/QUOTE] No, no no. He was a **pius** man–a man like Pope **Pius** X. You’ll accept that, right? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-pope-john-paul-ii-becomes-a-saint-what-will-he-be-called/398416.md?page=2)