# When Presidents speak at commencements, do they get $$$? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133 "2010-05-29T01:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/1 "2010-05-29T01:54:03Z")
Say I wanted our President Obama to speak at Goatherders U, for commencement, just because I like his style. Would I have to pony up some kind of honorarium, or is there a set fee? Or, is there a certain list of A-list colleges that he will speak at, fee or no fee? Thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/2 "2010-05-29T02:32:57Z")
This is a little off topic, but not much–I don’t know what presidents do. But about 45 years ago Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Earl Warren spoke at the commencement of a small college in Minnesota. My family was friends with the president of the college, and he told this story: At lunch before commencement, the president’s secretary put an envelope at Warren’s seat, which held a check for an honorarium plus the cost of first-class airfare from Washington to Minneapolis. Warren opened it, and said he hadn’t ever accepted an honoraria in his life (remember he’d been Governor of California and a politician for decades before Ike appointed him to the court). So the secretary cut a new check for just the airfare. A week later the college received a letter from the Chief Justice, with his personal check for the difference between first-class and coach airfare. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/3 "2010-05-29T02:36:03Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > This is a little off topic, but not much–I don’t know what presidents do. > > But about 45 years ago Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Earl Warren spoke at the commencement of a small college in Minnesota. My family was friends with the president of the college, and he told this story: > > At lunch before commencement, the president’s secretary put an envelope at Warren’s seat, which held a check for an honorarium plus the cost of first-class airfare from Washington to Minneapolis. Warren opened it, and said he hadn’t ever accepted an honoraria in his life (remember he’d been Governor of California and a politician for decades before Ike appointed him to the court). So the secretary cut a new check for just the airfare. > > A week later the college received a letter from the Chief Justice, with his personal check for the difference between first-class and coach airfare. I’m thinking this wouldn’t happen with Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/4 "2010-05-29T03:02:07Z")
Why? As I pointed out in my post, Warren was a politician. Politicians are usually happy to speak to any organization for free, because they always make a case for themselves. Do you have any evidence to enforce your point? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/5 "2010-05-29T03:54:52Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > I’m thinking this wouldn’t happen with Obama. And what you are really saying is …? ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/6 "2010-05-29T04:28:34Z")
Afaik, honorariums are negotiated with the speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/7 "2010-05-29T04:30:20Z")
Oh yes. Ex-presidents make unheard of bank from their speaking fees (6 figures and up for a short speech), whether for a commencement ceremony or otherwise. I’m not sure if it’s typical for a sitting president to give commencement speeches, but generally I would think he’d be a bit too busy for such a thing while in office. ---
**Author:** ![Notassmartasithought](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c0e974/32.png) [@Notassmartasithought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notassmartasithought)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/8 "2010-05-29T04:46:04Z")
Sitting presidents regularly make commencement speeches. For Obama, they’ve been Notre Dame, last May, and the US Military Academy this year. Retired politicians are another question, of course. Bill Clinton, George Bush the elder, and many others accept or require honoraria. And now we have questionably retired politicians garnering large honoraria, Sarah Palin, for instance. Is she retired or not? Her current job is TV analyst, so speaking fees are fair game. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/9 "2010-05-29T05:24:07Z")
I can’t imagine that sitting presidents take a fee for commencement speeches, as it would seem bad form. They are public servants after all, and as someone mentioned above, politicians are always looking for an excuse to speak in front of large crowds. Former presidents however probably do demand a fee, but I imagine that when it comes to educational institutions they probably have some of personal sliding scale, depending on how attached they are to that particularly university (like if it’s their or their kids’ alma mater or if its located in their hometown or if they just have close friends in the school’s administration) and what sort of financial footing the school is on. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/10 "2010-05-29T06:51:20Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > And what you are really saying is …? I read it just as pointing out that Obama, as sitting POTUS, would be flying in Air Force One, and the airfare bit would be obviously irrelevant. But, it occurs to me that there could easily be less charitable explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/11 "2010-05-29T15:26:34Z")
Political appointees in the executive branch are barred by executive order from accepting any outside compensation. Technically, that order doesn’t apply to the president himself, but it would be politically unimaginable for him for him not to follow the same rule. Also, there is a statute providing that no one in the executive branch can accept compensation for speaking or writing relating to his or her government duties, i.e., to anyone or about anything that may come before you in your job. The President’s job is so broadly defined that it would almost certainly apply to just about every speech he makes. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/12 "2010-05-29T16:26:11Z")
In my experience, sitting elected officials make the decision to speak at these sorts of events as part of their overall public-appearance message agenda. You get invited to dozens of events a week and you (or more realistically your staff) pick from among a few where it would be an appropriate opportunity to bring up this week’s talking points on jobs, values, security, etc. or to reach out to a constituency that’s represented in that town/group; if on the way to or from you can make a side trip to a fundraiser or campaign rally for a local political ally, hey, even better. POTUS is a special case since technically he’s never off the clock and a whole lot of his transportation expenses are already covered, or if reimbursable as nonofficial business they would be so at a rate considerably above what you’d pay for… oh, say the Chief Justice of Nebraska. Most sitting public officials either will not accept honoraria, or are barred from it. In some cases such as the example of Warren mentioned above, they may and will accept coverage for expenses (room, airfare) but at a rate that a later audit would consider reasonable and not extravagant. Once you’re a FORMER elected official, well, then it’s hello, speaking fees… nice work if you can get it. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/13 "2010-05-29T18:10:25Z")
What tom Tildrum said. I’m not sure about political appointees but for the rank and file workers there are very strict rules as to how you can use your position, with the long and short being that you can’t accept anything greater than about $25.00 beyond travel expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/14 "2010-05-29T18:42:14Z")
Minor hijack: Do commencement speakers even get an honorarium? My understand is that the speaker receives an honorary degree and the speech is made in exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/15 "2010-05-29T19:48:30Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Political appointees in the executive branch are barred by executive order from accepting any outside compensation. Not exactly. > [@](#): > > Executive branch employees are subject to restrictions on the gifts that they may accept from sources outside the Government. Generally they may not accept gifts that are given because of their official positions or that come from certain interested sources (“prohibited sources”). Prohibited sources include persons (or an organization made up of such persons) who – > > [ul] > [li]are seeking official action by, are doing business or seeking to do business with, or are regulated by the employee’s agency, or[/li][li]have interests that may be substantially affected by performance or nonperformance of the employee’s official duties.[/li][/ul] > In addition, an employee can never solicit or coerce the offering of a gift, or accept a gift in return for being influenced in the performance of an official act. Nor can an employee accept gifts so frequently that a reasonable person might think that the employee was using public office for private gain. > There are a number of exceptions to the ban on gifts from outside sources. These allow an employee to accept – > > [ul] > [li]a gift valued at $20 or less, provided that the total value of gifts from the same person is not more than $50 in a calendar year[/li][li]a gift motivated solely by a family relationship or personal friendship[/li][li]a gift based on an employee’s or his spouse’s outside business or employment relationships, including a gift customarily provided by a prospective employer as part of _bona fide_ employment discussions[/li][li]a gift provided in connection with certain political activities[/li][li]gifts of free attendance at certain widely attended gatherings, provided that the agency has determined that attendance is in the interest of the agency[/li][li]modest refreshments (such as coffee and donuts), greeting cards, plaques and other items of little intrinsic value[/li][li]discounts available to the public or to all Government employees, rewards and prizes connected to competitions open to the general public.[/li][/ul] > There are other exceptions, including exceptions for awards and honorary degrees, certain discounts and other benefits, attendance at certain social events, and meals, refreshments and entertainment in foreign countries. > > ``` > These exceptions are subject to some limitations on their use. For example, an employee can never solicit or coerce the offering of a gift. Nor can an employee use exceptions to accept gifts on such a frequent basis that a reasonable person would believe that the employee was using public office for private gain. > > If an employee has received a gift that cannot be accepted, the employee may return the gift or pay its market value. If the gift is perishable (e.g. a fruit basket or flowers) and it is not practical to return it, the gift may, with approval, be given to charity or shared in the office. > > ``` [http://www.usoge.gov/common\_ethics\_issues/gifts\_outside\_sources.aspx](http://www.usoge.gov/common_ethics_issues/gifts_outside_sources.aspx) > [@](#): > > Technically, that order doesn’t apply to the president himself, but it would be politically unimaginable for him for him not to follow the same rule. Actually the ethics laws apply to POTUS, but the very nature of the job grants selected exemptions. > [@](#): > > Also, there is a statute providing that no one in the executive branch can accept compensation for speaking or writing relating to his or her government duties, i.e., to anyone or about anything that may come before you in your job. The President’s job is so broadly defined that it would almost certainly apply to just about every speech he makes. Again, not exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/16 "2010-05-29T20:17:29Z")
> [@Notassmartasithought](#): > > Sitting presidents regularly make commencement speeches. > > For Obama, they’ve been Notre Dame, last May, and the US Military Academy this year. He just gave the commencement at the University of Michigan at Michigan stadium just a few weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/17 "2010-05-30T05:41:22Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Not exactly. No, what I said was correct. You’re missing the distinction between executive branch employees in general and political appointees in particular. All of them are subject to the statutes you noted (as is the president). Political appointees are subject to the additional restrictions in Executive Order [12731](http://www.usoge.gov/laws_regs/exec_orders/eo12731.pdf), sec. 102(a) of which prohibits any outside earned income. You’re right that I ignored such details as the _de minimis_ exception. I did so because I thought they were _de minimis_. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/18 "2010-05-30T15:00:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Minor hijack: Do commencement speakers even get an honorarium? My understand is that the speaker receives an honorary degree and the speech is made in exchange. Generally not. Their travel expenses are covered, of course, but the degree is the honorarium. The Earl Warren story does not ring true (though his repaying the difference between coach and first-class does – he is probably only allowed payment for actual expenses). ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/19 "2010-05-30T16:11:56Z")
They get compensated in fees but not like you’d think There are fees for their staff, they get gifts, which can amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars. They get first class accommodations in top of the line hotels, for themselves, their families, the staff and often friends of the families and such. A suite in a Four Seasons or Peninsula type hotel at minimum is gonna run over $5,000, usually a lot more. So they’re getting monies, it just won’t be directed in obvious cash payments. There are a lot of books by professional fund raisers that tell you how this works. Of course the politicians all say they are false, but it’s amazing how in the last 30 years book after book tells the same stories, the same way, with reciepts and other proofs, yet somehow it’s never true. \ And it’s not just politicians it’s everybody, from celebrities to athletes. They get rich off these speaking fees. One person who always comes out as a shining example of a “fee-free” celebrity is Wayne Newton. When he plays charities he always pays 100% for everything. Not only for him and his band but for all his staff. He doesn’t even accept free tickets to the fundraisers he performs at. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133/20 "2010-05-30T16:42:19Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > He just gave the commencement at the University of Michigan at Michigan stadium just a few weeks ago. When I graduated from Michigan all we got was the local newspaper owner. :smack: Although he was in the middle of a hugely nasty labor strike. Walking into the ceremony through a mob demonstrators and cops was interesting in a dystopian movie kind of way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-presidents-speak-at-commencements-do-they-get/541133.md?page=2)