# When Private Beliefs Intrude on Work Life
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 28, 2009, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600 "2009-04-28T09:31:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/21 "2009-04-28T15:54:37Z")
Isn’t it legal to fire someone for their political beliefs? I remember a story where a woman got fired for having a Kerry sticker on her car, I think. If that’s the case, then yeah, I would fire her. Political beliefs aren’t protected I don’t think.
I mean, I’m being honest here, but I would fire or think about firing anyone who had beliefs that I found offensive, if I found out about it. I wouldn’t ask, but if I found out, then I would think it was something they were bringing up at work, which is inappropriate. I am not tolerant of intolerance, and I will not apologize for that. I am right, they are wrong, and I don’t care to discuss it further in the workplace. Like I said, it isn’t something I bring up, in hiring or otherwise, but if I was made aware of it, it would be very bad for their career with my company.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/22 "2009-04-28T15:55:58Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#):
>
> Why? Unless he’s highly visible and very prominent (in which case, not stirring up public controversies is pretty much in his job description) then his job shouldn’t be relevant to the story.
>
> We recently had demonstrators in California trying to get a waitress fired from her job because she donated money to an organization opposing same sex marriage. Is that what you want? Is conformity to liberal orthodoxy now supposed to be a criterion for employment?
First, if you had paid attention to the Op, he is a she, and is described as Vice President of Marketing – which I believe is generally among the most visible and prominent leadership positions in a company.
Second, the woman at El Coyote was not “a waitress” but the manager of the business, and not merely an employee-manager but the daughter of the elderly business owner, for all practical purposes the owner’s agent. Nor did the demonstrators attempt to get her fired; they simply boycotted the business (which had catered to a largely gay clientele) in protest. As is their privilege.
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### Author:  [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/23 "2009-04-28T16:18:39Z")
Perhaps some background is in order.
[150 new members of the Association of Women for Action and Research (AWARE) vote in Ms. Josie Lau as president, as well as an entirely new executive committee. Old guard cry foul.](http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/422671/1/.html)
[“Coup Leader” comes open on why the takeover was organised: Aware had lost sight of its original purpose and become pro-lesbian and pro-homosexual.](http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_367834.html)
[Ms. Josie Lau’s employer, the Developmental Bank of Singapore, goes public with its misgivings about her conduct.](http://news.asiaone.com/News/The%2BBusiness%2BTimes/Story/A1Story20090417-135948.html)
If you’re still curious, you can look up the entire sordid tale [here](http://www.we-are-aware.sg/links).
Civil society in Singapore is about to lose its naivete… I hope.
[/hijack]
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/24 "2009-04-28T16:22:16Z")
> [@Laudenum](#):
>
> If the media were conflating the person’s personal beliefs and the company’s, then I would require them to make a statement emphasising that they were not representing the company on this matter, and I would have the company release a similar statement, stating that the personal beliefs of employees do not necessarily represent the company.
This is just what I was going to say.
Plus, I would have a heart to heart talk with the VP Marketing, and show them examples of media reports that use their company title. I would then show them any factual research I could dig up that shows that a negative public perception of the company was being formed by a significant number of customers. Using marketing language and logical reasoning, I would explain clearly to the VP marketing that they were actively harming the companies prospects when their private opinions were being reported in the media alongside their company title.
Given that the media can report things pretty much as they choose, I would then ask the VP marketing to be very cautious in future about harming the public face of the company. A high-level professional in marketing would clearly see that the harm that they do to the company outweighs their need to make public pronouncements about a controversial issue.
There should be no need to be heavy-handed. Appeal to their marketing savvy.
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### Author:  [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/25 "2009-04-28T16:27:58Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> From the OP:
> \*\*\*\*This creates a hostile work environment and targets a specific group…not just a general asshole in the workplace. I’d feel the same way if someone came out against women or any other group. The simple fact that she is publicly associated with both her hate group and her employer creates an intimidating environment. You don’t see the difference?
No, I don’t see the difference. Until he brings it into the workplace–or tries to give the impression that your company approves or advocates his position–only his workplace behavior should be considered.
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### Author:  [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/26 "2009-04-28T16:36:45Z")
Tell him if he wants to shoot his mouth off to the media, numbers better be up next quarter, because as a VP of marketing, he should intimately understand what he is doing and how it may reflect/be interpreted by your customer base.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/27 "2009-04-28T16:49:49Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#):
>
> No, I don’t see the difference. Until he brings it into the workplace–or tries to give the impression that your company approves or advocates his position–only his workplace behavior should be considered.
Would you say that if his outside activity included,say, Klan activity and he announced what company he worked at, yet didn’t wear a hood to the office? You don’t think that amounts to workplace intimidation?
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/28 "2009-04-28T17:01:50Z")
Oh, wait, this is in Singapore?
In that case, I take it all back. The more people who publicly say a big “Fuck You!” to Singapore’s totalitarian establishment, the better.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/29 "2009-04-28T17:08:02Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Would you say that if his outside activity included,say, Klan activity and he announced what company he worked at, yet didn’t wear a hood to the office? You don’t think that amounts to workplace intimidation?
Isn’t it indimidating to be forced to toe the boss’ political line because you fear for your job?
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### Author:  [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/30 "2009-04-28T17:17:48Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#):
>
> Isn’t it legal to fire someone for their political beliefs? I remember a story where a woman got fired for having a Kerry sticker on her car, I think. If that’s the case, then yeah, I would fire her. Political beliefs aren’t protected I don’t think.
>
> I mean, I’m being honest here, but I would fire or think about firing anyone who had beliefs that I found offensive, if I found out about it. I wouldn’t ask, but if I found out, then I would think it was something they were bringing up at work, which is inappropriate. I am not tolerant of intolerance, and I will not apologize for that. I am right, they are wrong, and I don’t care to discuss it further in the workplace. Like I said, it isn’t something I bring up, in hiring or otherwise, but if I was made aware of it, it would be very bad for their career with my company.
You’re a bad person.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/31 "2009-04-28T17:18:46Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Isn’t it indimidating to be forced to toe the boss’ political line because you fear for your job?
I’d say so! It’s certainly intimidating when the person with the bias is also in a position of power, and makes sure everyone…employees and outsiders alike…know it!
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/32 "2009-04-28T18:23:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Does the company have a public position on the issue?
Ooh, I forgot that angle - definitely would factor in.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/33 "2009-04-28T18:25:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> Only if their association can be _shown_ to be negatively impacting your public image and hence profits, otherwise their private affairs are their own, IMO.
Yawohl!
Employees should not be fired for what they **think** , or even what they **are** , in their private lives. Only for what they do that negatively affects the employer.
Firing a person under the circumstances of the OP is pretty much the same as firing a person for being gay.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/34 "2009-04-28T18:33:11Z")
Well, the situation is substantially different from what’s in the OP:
> [@](#):
>
> DBS said Josie Lau, who heads marketing for credit cards and unsecured loans, had not sought the bank’s approval before she was appointed to Aware’s exco on March 28.
>
> This breached the staff code of conduct, but the bank nevertheless agreed to let her take up the appointment as a concession.
>
> Later, when she wanted to run for the post of president, the bank made it clear that it could not support her move, given the demands of the post and her own responsibilities. She ignored its advice.
>
> ‘We are disappointed that Josie knowingly disregarded DBS’ staff code of conduct twice,’ said a DBS spokesperson.
>
> ‘Such attitude is not one that DBS, or any other organisation, can condone in a leader. We are now reviewing the matter internally.’
Also:
> [@](#):
>
> Incidentally, Ms Lau’s department was behind a DBS credit card campaign last November which landed the bank in hot water with the gay community.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/35 "2009-04-28T20:02:27Z")
Forget Singapore. Right here in the U.S. of A. we have a newspaper story today about prominent local figures speaking out on a controversial issue. They include [a bank chairman, judge, pediatrician and lawyer who don’t hide their job titles and professional ties.](http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/A10045B1F9F9BEE3862575A6000AA785?OpenDocument)
They’re all gay and speaking out on gay rights.
Would anyone like to change their response?
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/36 "2009-04-28T20:09:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> Forget Singapore. Right here in the U.S. of A. we have a newspaper story today about prominent local figures speaking out on a controversial issue. They include [a bank chairman, judge, pediatrician and lawyer who don’t hide their job titles and professional ties.](http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/A10045B1F9F9BEE3862575A6000AA785?OpenDocument)
>
> They’re all gay and speaking out on gay rights.
>
> Would anyone like to change their response?
You are making a point I’ve already rebutted in my first post in this thread.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/37 "2009-04-28T20:22:37Z")
Speaking in a purely theoretical way (I don’t have and don’t want the power to fire people), I would say that I would take no action against the person. I value the freedom to hold my own opinions. That means I have to value that same freedom for other people. I may not respect their opinion, but I MUST respect their right to have one.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/38 "2009-04-28T20:45:59Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> Speaking in a purely theoretical way (I don’t have and don’t want the power to fire people), I would say that I would take no action against the person. I value the freedom to hold my own opinions. That means I have to value that same freedom for other people. I may not respect their opinion, but I MUST respect their right to have one.
I value this as well, but if the opinion and action are intimidating others to the point where a hostile workplace is created, don’t we draw the line there?
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/39 "2009-04-28T20:53:48Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#):
>
> You are making a point I’ve already rebutted in my first post in this thread.
And you are reducing the entire discussion to a single issue – gay rights, and overlooking the broader point of the OP.
I chose my example because it happened to be in this morning’s paper. Let’s talk about a different topic: the 2nd Amendment, animal rights, subsidized low-income housing, whether to buy domestic or imported cars, you name it. Your company’s customers are divided over the issue. Your company’s employees are divided over the issue. Should you discipline (or fire) the employee for speaking out?
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-private-beliefs-intrude-on-work-life/494600/40 "2009-04-28T22:09:58Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> And you are reducing the entire discussion to a single issue – gay rights, and overlooking the broader point of the OP.
>
> I chose my example because it happened to be in this morning’s paper. Let’s talk about a different topic: the 2nd Amendment, animal rights, subsidized low-income housing, whether to buy domestic or imported cars, you name it. Your company’s customers are divided over the issue. Your company’s employees are divided over the issue. Should you discipline (or fire) the employee for speaking out?
If that employee is not transmitting official company policy on whatever, then they are NOT representing the company, and should not mention the company they work for at all.
Just as a wild assed example - before my dad died, he was one of the top dogs in the local business promotional organization. If he was speaking about wanting to get more business into the area owned/operated by specific minorities such as pregnant lesbians, then he should have gone into the paper as Joe Schmoe, CEO of BizPopCo. If he was speaking in general as one of the miscellaneous people interviewed at a GAYLA parade, then he should be referenced as Joe Schmoe. His business has NOTHING to do with his watching the parade and being interviewed.
Just like Jane Doe, CFO of Popco being interviewed at an anti abortion rally has NOTING to do with Popco’s stance on abortions BUT if she was CFO of the local Catholic Charities, she can state that while it is legal, Catholic Charities would prefer that women please come and consult with Catholic Charities and find an alternate method to abortion. Then it would be appropriate for it to be mentioned that she is CFO of Catholic Charities. Otherwse it looks like Popco, supplier of medical products is making a stand against abortion, when in fact they make half their income selling widgets to abortionists. Very misleading.
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