# When reading a high-fantasy novel, how much do you study the maps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125 "2008-03-05T01:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/1 "2008-03-05T01:46:07Z")
On the off chance anybody here doesn’t know, [high fantasy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy) is the fantasy subgenre set in imaginary, invented worlds–Middle-earth, Narnia, and so forth. It’s fairly common in these books–particularly those with a war or quest motif–for a map of the setting to be included. Does anybody here actually study these things? If so, do you consult during the reading or afterward? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/2 "2008-03-05T01:57:38Z")
Maps are key, the more detailed, the better. And the details had better be involved in advancing the understanding of the story, too! I study them during and after, and on occasion, buy atlases devoted to unravelling them further (JRRT’s stuff, Donaldson’s ‘the land’, and Pern are my main examples). I also hate when the maps don’t make geologic sense, as far too many of them don’t. Two or three rivers rising from a large body of inland water, to then meander to the sea along different paths irks me no end. Pern’s southern continent suffered this flaw. You shouldn’t get me started on this topic you know. My other browser window is open to a map of the Mojave desert, and I’m studying the lay of the land there, for a future trip. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/3 "2008-03-05T01:59:44Z")
I just finished reading _Antony and Cleopatra_ by Colleen McCullough, the final book in her Masters of Rome series. While not fantasy, she did include maps as well as drawings of siegeworks, which I found incredibly helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/4 "2008-03-05T02:00:10Z")
I don’t read high fantasy but I’m a fan of alt-history which often comes with maps and I really enjoy studying those to get a better idea of the world that the story is taking place in. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/5 "2008-03-05T02:01:36Z")
I generally take a look while reading if I forget where the characters are. If the characters part ways, with one of them saying, “I’m going to Little Smithing!” and another one saying, “I’m going to Gobbler’s Knob!” then I absolutely have to look at the map, because I’ve no idea where either of those places are in context of the book. Getting lost in a made-up world is one of the reasons I don’t read a lot of high fantasy. I generally don’t study the map before I start reading, because I know it’s not going to stick in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/6 "2008-03-05T02:21:20Z")
I spend a few minutes prior to reading studying the map. It is helpful to get a sense of scale and distance when places are mentioned. And when place names are mentioned as the present location, I go back to the map to get a sense of where I am, so to speak, and what and where the nearest landmarks are. It helps me envision the world as a connected environment rather than a series of disconnected zones. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/7 "2008-03-05T02:45:03Z")
I generally examine the map pretty carefully before beginning to read, primarily noting names, relative placements, and natural obstacles. Thus, when someone says they’re going to East Whereinhell, I have some idea of how significant a trip they’re talking about. I occasionally go back to the map to refresh my memory if there’s a long delay before travel talk starts. Like **Qadgop** , unreasonable geography bothers me. So do climatic conditions that don’t make sense in relation to the geography. I 'm very fussy about this when I’m worldbuilding–I’ve been known to start with plate tectonics and build from there. I don’t demand quite that level of anality from others, but I prefer it if they put a decent amount of thought into their maps. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/8 "2008-03-05T02:47:29Z")
The time I’ve found maps the most helpful was when I was reading LeGuin’s _Earthsea_ books. For some reason my brain had a hard time getting a sense of place on the open sea without it. On the other hand, while the Middle Earth maps published with the books are awesome and incredibly useful, I didn’t need them really to picture the lay of the land, except for the lands in and around Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, and surrounding Mordor. (basically, for the middle portion of the second book.) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/9 "2008-03-05T02:54:17Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] On the off chance anybody here doesn’t know, [high fantasy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy) is the fantasy subgenre set in imaginary, invented worlds–Middle-earth, Narnia, and so forth. It’s fairly common in these books–particularly those with a war or quest motif–for a map of the setting to be included. Does anybody here actually study these things? If so, do you consult during the reading or afterward? If not, why not? [/QUOTE] Oh, absolutely. I love maps, and I’m a geographer (as well as a few other things), so I always make sure to study the maps for the lay of the land. I also make sure they have the basics right (rivers flowing DOWN from the mountains, etc.) Some don’t, although I can’t remember the last silly mistake I saw offhand. Edit: > [@](#): > > I also hate when the maps don’t make geologic sense, as far too many of them don’t. Two or three rivers rising from a large body of inland water, to then meander to the sea along different paths irks me no end. Pern’s southern continent suffered this flaw. Well, there ya go. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/10 "2008-03-05T03:23:21Z")
[QUOTE=Miss Purl McKnittington] “I’m going to Gobbler’s Knob!” then I absolutely have to look at the map, because I’ve no idea where either of those places are in context of the book. [/QUOTE] Gobbler’s Knob’s in Punxsutawney, PA, about 100 miles NE of Pittsburgh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/11 "2008-03-05T04:27:30Z")
If there’s a map included, you can bet I’m referring to it all the time. It really enhances my enjoyment of a book. I don’t read much high fantasy, but maps are included in non-fantasy novels, too. I recently read _Up Country_ by Nelson De Mille, which is about a Vietnam vet who returns to Vietnam decades later and travels all over the country. He hits most of the well-known spots from the war. Following along on the map was a fun way to finally get a good handle on where everything is in relation to each other. Hmmm…I wonder if you can get a poster of the map from _The Phantom Tollbooth_. That would be cool. By the way, I’d be interested to know if the people responding to this thread are map-oriented in real life, too. I certainly am. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/12 "2008-03-05T04:34:09Z")
[QUOTE=Green Bean] By the way, I’d be interested to know if the people responding to this thread are map-oriented in real life, too. I certainly am. [/QUOTE] I am. I’ve been known to read atlases like other people read novels. I LOVE roadmaps when I’m travelling, besides their obvious utility. And yes, to answer the OP, I do tend to keep track on the maps when I’m reading fantasy. That’s one thing that George R. R. Martin frustrated me on…his _A Song of Ice and Fire_ series has partial maps! In the first volume, only the northern part of the continent of Westeros is shown, but at least 2/3 the book takes place south and/or east of that map, and I couldn’t get any good idea of the relative positions of ANYTHING!!! It drove me crazy until I finally found a decent Westeros map online. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/13 "2008-03-05T04:35:52Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Gobbler’s Knob’s in Punxsutawney, PA, about 100 miles NE of Pittsburgh. 😃 [/QUOTE] Yeah, but where’s Little Smithing? Who knows! Probably a harbor on one of those three rivers flowing to the sea through a semi-arid plain to the west of the mountains. I am absolutely not a map person. I travel by landmarks. If someone cuts down that big oak tree and paints the red barn white, I’m screwed. I’m pretty good when I’m on familiar terrain, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/14 "2008-03-05T05:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Green Bean] By the way, I’d be interested to know if the people responding to this thread are map-oriented in real life, too. I certainly am. [/QUOTE] Depends on what you mean. I don’t use them to navigate but I love them just to look at and have considered map related tattoos, like a compass rose on my wrist or a mercator projection on my upper back. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/15 "2008-03-05T05:16:29Z")
The maps Stephenson put in his Baroque Cycle books were uniformly awesome and also useful to refer to when reading. The map of post-fire London was especially wonderful. But then I’m a map geek. I visited Atlanta’s High Museum over Christmas and the gift shop had a gigantic reproduction of an extremely detailed map of Paris. If only it wasn’t +$30,000. (Yeah, not exactly an impulse item.) ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/16 "2008-03-05T05:30:25Z")
I just finished a high fantasy novel this evening and I looked at the map several times as I read. Usually I’ll only glance at the map before I read, since the names are all nonsense until I get into the story. By the end I’ll know the map pretty well. I guess I’ve always been like that, since I had _The Atlas of Pern_ as a teenager. And yes, I study maps IRL, too. Come to think of it, our hall is practically papered with maps! (For the kids. Really.) ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/17 "2008-03-05T06:08:03Z")
I’m extremely map oriented and test well above average (even grouped with men) on spatial orientation but… I never look at maps in books. It seems like cheating. A proper book should have the entire story contained in the prose and not rely on “extras”. If I can’t figure out how things relate to each other from the words the author has written, I think it’s a poorly written story. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/18 "2008-03-05T06:25:29Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I am. I’ve been known to read atlases like other people read novels. I LOVE roadmaps when I’m travelling, besides their obvious utility. And yes, to answer the OP, I do tend to keep track on the maps when I’m reading fantasy. That’s one thing that George R. R. Martin frustrated me on…his _A Song of Ice and Fire_ series has partial maps! In the first volume, only the northern part of the continent of Westeros is shown, but at least 2/3 the book takes place south and/or east of that map, and I couldn’t get any good idea of the relative positions of ANYTHING!!! It drove me crazy until I finally found a decent Westeros map online. [/QUOTE] Really? I have two different paperback editions of\* A Game of Thrones\* the first fell apart from repeated readings, so I bought a new one), and both contain maps of southern Westeros. Maybe yours was missing a page? What they do lack is a map of the Free Cities and points east (except for the Slaver’s Bay map in book 3). Hopefully, that’ll be rectified by book 5. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/19 "2008-03-05T06:47:07Z")
I look at the maps constantly - in fact, so often in LotR that I keep a .pdf map of Middle Earth, about 6 size 8.5x11" pieces. One is printed out with hand-written notes. Often I consult other books, since it’s such a pain to keep flipping back and forth. I look at it any time I don’t understand “where I am”. Although _Atlas of Middle Earth_ is worth looking at on its own. I do the same when I’m reading history/art history/archaeology textbooks. I tend to keep atlases for those as well. I am very map-oriented/geography obsessed IRL as well. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2008, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125/20 "2008-03-05T09:02:40Z")
I read and refer to maps all the time when reading fantasy. For all the reasons above. Si [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-reading-a-high-fantasy-novel-how-much-do-you-study-the-maps/440125.md?page=2)