# When should a person have the right to drive thru a crowd of demonstrators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732 "2018-04-03T17:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/201 "2018-04-04T18:58:37Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Wait, what? > > It is nothing like “an annoyed driver whose desired path of travel is being blocked deliberately by participants in a rally” … That’s how it started out: > [@](#): > > **Growing increasingly annoyed** by the slow-moving traffic as the family tried to celebrate their anniversary by shopping and dinner in New Jersey, Ng threw a half-eaten plum out of the window, Lien said. At that point, the rally participants escalated, by striking the vehicle, which is common in these situations with protester too: Driver honks his horn or tries to inch his way through and protesters, for some fucking idiotic flawed “reasoning”, they decide to run into the path of the vehicle, slap it / hit it, throw things , etc. That’s what the motorcyclists decided to do too. > [@griffin1977](#): > > … At that point you absolutely have what a reasonable person would consider an actual threat of bodily harm (unlike the videos in the OP). If if he had accelerated into them before then he absolutely would have been guilty of assault with deadly weapon. I agree. I don’t believe I’ve claimed he was / should be authorized to accelerate into / over / through them prior to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/202 "2018-04-04T18:59:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s a piss-poor mischaracterization of my position. I’ve repeatedly said that protesters should not be deliberately run over for the annoyance they cause. Even in Shodan’s “Discuss” example, I stated “I don’t necessarily condone it” You are advocating for a law that would make it trivially easy for people to get away with running over protestors that inconvenience them. That you would not personally do that does not really make it any better. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/203 "2018-04-04T19:05:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You are advocating for a law that would make it trivially easy for people to get away with running over protestors that inconvenience them. That you would not personally do that does not really make it any better. I don’t believe the law would make it “trivially easy for people to get away with running over protestors that inconvenience them”, but I do believe it would protect motorists like the driver in the UCSD case who (it seems pretty clear to me) unintentionally collided with a wayward protester. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/204 "2018-04-04T19:09:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What if they can but choose not to? Are you going to roll up and nudge them (at which point it can become battery)? Yes, that’s what I am asking about. Nudge them, push them, however you want to characterize it. > [@](#): > > What if you are three inches from some guy, he decides you are too close (no way you cannot tell whether you have made contact) and he pounds on your hood (which could lead to escalation), what will you do then? What if I keep going (at less than 1 mph)? That’s what I am talking about. If it is OK for me to be inconvenienced by not being able to use the road, is there a point where it is OK for him to be inconvenienced by not being able to stop me? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/205 "2018-04-04T19:11:57Z")
What if he deliberately lays down in front of you? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/206 "2018-04-04T19:18:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not a “justification”, simply an observation: you said “will obviously end in unjustified harm to another person”, but that’s not at all obvious. It usually does not (see below for a clarification on “harm”). > I should have clarified that I meant physical injury, not whatever psychological trauma a special snowflake might feel by having to step out of the way of a vehicle that refuses to stop and listen to them whine. Fine, if someone starts swinging a baseball bat and approaching you, I maintain that you cannot draw your weapon and shoot them, because you’d just be acting on whatever psychological trauma that a special snowflake might feel by having to step out of the way of a maniac with a baseball bat and refusing to stop. > [@](#): > > I don’t. You’ve misunderstood what SB 1096 does. It does not provide “blanket immunity from killing a jaywalker if the jaywalker is holding a sign”. There are several conditions that have to be met for the civil immunity to be triggered, only one of which has anything to do with holding a sign. The only substantive conditions are the lack of permit for a demonstration and the requirement for the assault to be unintentional. Which means my question about why someone should enjoy immunity from accidentally killing someone with a sign in their hand, but not from someone with a ball in their hand, is still a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/207 "2018-04-04T19:19:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, that’s what I am asking about. Nudge them, push them, however you want to characterize it.What if I keep going (at less than 1 mph)? That’s what I am talking about. > > If it is OK for me to be inconvenienced by not being able to use the road, is there a point where it is OK for him to be inconvenienced by not being able to stop me? Because they may be blocking the road, but you are committing assault and battery without justification of self-defense. That is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/208 "2018-04-04T19:28:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, that’s what I am asking about. Nudge them, push them, however you want to characterize it.What if I keep going (at less than 1 mph)? That’s what I am talking about. That becomes battery. If you are walking through a store, someone is in your way and you shove them over so that you can proceed, that can be seen as an aggressive act which can get you into a fight (that you effectively started). With a car, it is worse. You have several tons of mass protecting you, and a tiny nudge can lead to real injury. If your car gets attacked, you asked for it. > [@](#): > > If it is OK for me to be inconvenienced by not being able to use the road, is there a point where it is OK for him to be inconvenienced by not being able to stop me? You do not get your rights for free. If you are irresponsible with them, you can have them legitimately breached. Which, yes, goes for the protesters as well. But, if you unilaterally choose to breach the rights of people who are in your way (who were already there), you will be in the wrong. Just fucking roll your window down, stick your head out of it, and negotiate for passage. Failing to do that puts you in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/209 "2018-04-04T19:29:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How about this one: Don’t stand in the middle of the road and expect to be safe? or DSitMotRaEtbS? Not bad advice, and I would recommend to people not to go into the road except as defined by traffic and pedestrian laws. However, if someone does not follow that advice, that does not give you excuse to kill them. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. Don’t hit people with your car, even if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/210 "2018-04-04T19:36:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What if he deliberately lays down in front of you? I’d like to hear the answer to this question. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/211 "2018-04-04T19:41:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What if he deliberately lays down in front of you? Then we know who is really committed to the cause. But he might be well-advised to be sure I saw him laying down. That might be harder to see than someone simply standing there. But yes, I would think I would be morally compelled to stop, so that might be a better option than simply standing there. Protests are one thing. Being a speed bump is something else. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/212 "2018-04-04T19:42:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Yes, because a protest should never ever inconvenience anyone at all ever. Nor should a protest endanger anyone’s life and that’s what the thread is about. I don’t think there’s anything problematic about this. If a driver genuinely fears for his life or the lives of his passengers of course he can try to get away. If someone is hurt in the process then a court of law will decide if there was justification or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/213 "2018-04-04T19:50:42Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That becomes battery. If you are walking through a store, someone is in your way and you shove them over so that you can proceed, that can be seen as an aggressive act which can get you into a fight (that you effectively started). That is not a very good analogy. A better one might be if some group is protesting in front of a store, like a striking union. I don’t care, and I am trying to get to the store to buy condoms and a rotisserie chicken. Some striker gets in my face and tries to block my entrance to the store. He won’t let me get around him. At some point, I am justified in shoving him out of the way. IMO. > [@](#): > > You do not get your rights for free. If you are irresponsible with them, you can have them legitimately breached. Which, yes, goes for the protesters as well. But, if you unilaterally choose to breach the rights of people who are in your way (who were already there), you will be in the wrong. Just fucking roll your window down, stick your head out of it, and negotiate for passage. Failing to do that puts you in the wrong. Yes, it does go for the protestors too. Their breach of my rights puts them in the wrong - I have the right to the uninterrupted use of the public highways. They don’t have any right to block the public streets. This isn’t absolute - I am not advocating gunfire or whatever. But at some point, what goes around comes around, and the fact that they are making my life marginally more miserable means that I may have to take steps to make their lives equally miserable. Equally, not necessarily more. And I am not rolling down my window under almost any circumstance. There is a fine line between protests and public riot - I prefer not to take any chances. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/214 "2018-04-04T19:52:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …I stated “I don’t necessarily condone it” “…Not _necessarily_…”! MLK did not die in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/215 "2018-04-04T19:54:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That is not a very good analogy. > > A better one might be if some group is protesting in front of a store, like a striking union. I don’t care, and I am trying to get to the store to buy condoms and a rotisserie chicken. Some striker gets in my face and tries to block my entrance to the store. He won’t let me get around him. At some point, I am justified in shoving him out of the way. IMO. If you are on the freeway and there’s a traffic jam, do you think you have the right to just start pushing cars out of your way with your own car? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/216 "2018-04-04T19:55:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What if he deliberately lays down in front of you? Frankly, that would be closer to committing suicide. I would hope their fellow protestors would pull them out of the way. Incidentally in the videos I posted, when they figured out drivers were not going to play nice they pulled their people out of the road. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/217 "2018-04-04T19:55:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have the right to the uninterrupted use of the public highways. The law does not support you on that. > [@](#): > > They don’t have any right to block the public streets. Or that. > [@](#): > > the fact that they are making my life marginally more miserable means that I may have to take steps to make their lives equally miserable. Equally, not necessarily more. Your inconvenience is equivalent to their maiming or death. Glad to get that straight. > [@](#): > > There is a fine line between protests and public riot Not if you take the minimal trouble to find out what the protest is about first. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/218 "2018-04-04T19:56:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And I am not rolling down my window under almost any circumstance. There is a fine line between protests and public riot - I prefer not to take any chances. Do you think you can discern between a peaceful protest and a riot? Do you think that window affords much protection in a riot? Or is it you think rolling down your window and talking to them will incite the peaceful protestors to riot? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/219 "2018-04-04T20:04:38Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Frankly, that would be closer to committing suicide. Does that absolve the driver of the legal responsibility to avoid them? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/220 "2018-04-04T20:05:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Incidentally in the videos I posted, when they figured out drivers were not going to play nice they pulled their people out of the road. And when insane people go shooting up a school or workplace, people tend to flee the school or workplace. Running for one’s life does not indicate which party is in the right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=12)