# When should a person have the right to drive thru a crowd of demonstrators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732 "2018-04-03T17:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/21 "2018-04-03T18:25:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In Libertarian Land, demonstrators take personal responsibility for getting out of the way of oncoming cars. Not just Libertarian Land. [California too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GtM-debHD8). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/22 "2018-04-03T18:25:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I never claimed anything about “possible damage” to a vehicle, or was talking about scratches and dents. I’m explicitly talking about a genuine threat of great bodily harm. Maybe some members of the crowd have tire irons, bricks, or baseball bats, and are yelling “we’re gonna get you!” while smashing the side windows and reaching into the vehicle to unlock it. In a case like that, a reasonable person might conclude their life is in danger. The vehicle, while stationary, is no longer offering adequate protection. Cars have been set on fire, also. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/23 "2018-04-03T18:27:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I never claimed anything about “possible damage” to a vehicle, or was talking about scratches and dents. I’m explicitly talking about a genuine threat of great bodily harm. Maybe some members of the crowd have tire irons, bricks, or baseball bats, and are yelling “we’re gonna get you!” while smashing the side windows and reaching into the vehicle to unlock it. In a case like that, a reasonable person might conclude their life is in danger. The vehicle, while stationary, is no longer offering adequate protection. How often does this happen at protests in reality? Are we legalizing vehicular homicide for an incredibly rare possibility? Seems like a big government overreaction to a couple of isolated incidents that have been blown up into a much bigger deal by certain media outlets. Are there statistics for how often this kind of thing happens, where people are attacking cars with tire irons etc? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/24 "2018-04-03T18:31:46Z")
In this context, the word “right” is being used loosely. In fact, if you read the law, nobody “has the right” to be on the road - they just are allowed to use it, which is most definitely not a similar thing. A person always has the right to drive, assuming you mean on the proper roads and following the traffic regulations. A group always has the right to protest. There’s a conflict, obviously. It has to be worked out case by case. There - problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/25 "2018-04-03T18:39:19Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > How often does this happen at protests in reality? I don’t have any statistics on the matter. I’d be pleasantly surprised if anyone did. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Are we legalizing vehicular homicide for an incredibly rare possibility? I would hazard a guess that the cases of vehicular homicide resulting from a change like this would, themselves, be incredibly rare. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/26 "2018-04-03T18:41:22Z")
A Sacramento Sheriff’s Department vehicle recently hit a protester while moving through a crowd. The police said the back window was shattered and the protesters were striking the vehicle. I suspect no charges will result for the driver. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/27 "2018-04-03T18:44:56Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > In this context, the word “right” is being used loosely. In fact, if you read the law, nobody “has the right” to be on the road - they just are allowed to use it, which is most definitely not a similar thing. > > A person always has the right to drive, assuming you mean on the proper roads and following the traffic regulations. > > A group always has the right to protest. > > There’s a conflict, obviously. It has to be worked out case by case. There - problem solved. That’s why I say we need a clarification of the law so people are not being killed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/28 "2018-04-03T18:53:50Z")
Incidentally, it’s [a lot harder than most people think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91_K-s4pMM) to shatter a car window, even with a hammer, baseball bat, or other tool. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/29 "2018-04-03T18:53:58Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > … A group always has the right to protest. … No, no they don’t. Protest groups are subject to “time, place, and manner” restrictions. A reasonable place restriction might be “you can’t protest on the freeway”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/30 "2018-04-03T18:54:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How vital does the need have to be in order to justify running over people? Dental appointment? Job interview? Mani/pedi? Well that dental appointment you have been waiting days for or that job interview your are desperate for could be VERY important. In that case I dont see anything wrong if you lay on your horn and slowly work your way thru. Yes, your cars going to get alot of dents and scratches. But I think if you used diligence in trying to be safe I dont see an issue. Plus are we also advocating persons have the right to walk out onto any street they wish and stop traffic? Do people have that right? When you think about it just swerving to avoid someone could cause an accident. We are not talking about an organized demonstration where a group has a permit to say be on a road from say 1-3 pm. We are talking about sometimes violent people who take it upon themselves to run out in front of traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/31 "2018-04-03T18:59:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have any statistics on the matter. I’d be pleasantly surprised if anyone did. > I would hazard a guess that the cases of vehicular homicide resulting from a change like this would, themselves, be incredibly rare. I would think the cases of people emboldened to injure or kill protesters who are protesting for things the driver disagrees with will be larger than the number of times a person successfully defends themselves from murderous protesters trying to kill innocent drivers. I think this is a way to discourage protests because those in charge passing these laws are on the other political side from the current protesters and they’d like to find a legal way to make them feel threatened. That seems far more likely than all of a sudden we have this terrible pervasive problem of poor drivers being assualted while in their cars that we simply must pass a law about. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/32 "2018-04-03T19:02:36Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I would think the cases of people emboldened to injure or kill protesters who are protesting for things the driver disagrees with will be larger than the number of times a person successfully defends themselves from murderous protesters trying to kill innocent drivers. > > I think this is a way to discourage protests because those in charge passing these laws are on the other political side from the current protesters and they’d like to find a legal way to make them feel threatened. That seems far more likely than all of a sudden we have this terrible pervasive problem of poor drivers being assualted while in their cars that we simply must pass a law about. I don’t think either of us have any way of knowing if your speculation is correct or not. I would hope that the net effect of the law would be that protesters wise up, change their behavior, and stay the hell out of traffic. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/33 "2018-04-03T19:04:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How vital does the need have to be in order to justify running over people? Dental appointment? Job interview? Mani/pedi? So, let’s say you hear od a demo, but you do have a dental appt. But you figure it wont be violent, and it’s a half a dozen blocks away from your dentist. But it does turn out to be violent, due to anarchists and it spreads. Are you saying that every time there is a protest, everyone in that city must stay home? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/34 "2018-04-03T19:07:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think either of us have any way of knowing if your speculation is correct or not. I would hope that the net effect of the law would be that protesters wise up, change their behavior, and stay the hell out of traffic. Yes, because a protest should never ever inconvenience anyone at all ever. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/35 "2018-04-03T19:08:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Incidentally, it’s [a lot harder than most people think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91_K-s4pMM) to shatter a car window, even with a hammer, baseball bat, or other tool. I can’t say I have much experience smashing windows. but there are lots of videos on YouTube showing people easily shattering car windows with fragments of porcelain from a broken spark plug. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/36 "2018-04-03T19:09:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, let’s say you hear od a demo, but you do have a dental appt. But you figure it wont be violent, and it’s a half a dozen blocks away from your dentist. > > But it does turn out to be violent, due to anarchists and it spreads. Are you saying that every time there is a protest, everyone in that city must stay home? Cities are large, hence the name. There are probably some parts of the city that won’t be affected by violent, anarchist-spread demonstration/riots. So no, everyone in that city does not have to stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/37 "2018-04-03T19:09:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think either of us have any way of knowing if your speculation is correct or not. I would hope that the net effect of the law would be that protesters wise up, change their behavior, and stay the hell out of traffic. I’m sure we don’t have any way of knowing for certain which of our speculations is closer to what will happen, but if this is your concern, then why not make a law making it illegal to protest in the street? Why jump to “let’s make it ok to run them down”? Because one is more intimidating and threatening? If it was illegal to protest in the street, then they can be ordered to disperse and arrested if they don’t. Is it because it’s easier to pass the “run them over” law then the “you can’t protest in certain areas” law? So you do agree that these bills are about trying to make the protesters stop protesting, or at least to stop protesting in a way that might be inconvenient to you then? Because my supposition is that its more about that than any legitimate safety concerns for drivers. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/38 "2018-04-03T19:10:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Yes, because a protest should never ever inconvenience anyone at all ever. Protesters ought to adhere to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions, IMHO (and, conveniently for me, in the eyes of the law too). It also seems stupidly counter-productive if your primary tactic is to annoy and frustrate people. I don’t think many of the Tea Party protests adopted these techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/39 "2018-04-03T19:11:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, let’s say you hear od a demo, but you do have a dental appt. But you figure it wont be violent, and it’s a half a dozen blocks away from your dentist. > > But it does turn out to be violent, due to anarchists and it spreads. Are you saying that every time there is a protest, everyone in that city must stay home? No I think the idea is: Don’t Kill People With Your Car Is it really that hard to figure out how to not do that? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/40 "2018-04-03T19:12:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > . . . Plus are we also advocating persons have the right to walk out onto any street they wish and stop traffic? Do people have that right? When you think about it just swerving to avoid someone could cause an accident. > > We are not talking about an organized demonstration where a group has a permit to say be on a road from say 1-3 pm. We are talking about sometimes violent people who take it upon themselves to run out in front of traffic. Under traffic laws, yes it’s illegal. The details vary from location to location. By the time a major highway has been closed down, though, the moment for issuing jaywalking tickets has usually passed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=3)