# When should a person have the right to drive thru a crowd of demonstrators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732 "2018-04-03T17:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/61 "2018-04-03T20:03:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think you’re wrong here. I think the protests have changed significantly. Tea Partiers did not, to my knowledge, make a regular habit of disrupting traffic or blocking freeways. OWS / Antifa / BLM seem to though. The nature of the protests has changed. They’ve decided to ignore the reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions in place. When they do that, there’s the potential for injury (just like the late-night freeway collision I posted earlier), but the driver should not be liable for the bad acts of the protesters. Thus, a clarification in the law seems appropriate. The protestors are inconveniencing people, not threatening bodily harm. So far I don’t think being inconvenienced is sufficient reason to run them over. If the protestors put themselves in a dangerous position like blocking a freeway at night and the first person coming along doesn’t see them in time and hits someone I presume that will be taken into account at trial. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/62 "2018-04-03T20:04:03Z")
If a person’s so out-of-control and shows so little respect for other humans, society and it’s laws by blockading the street and smashing up your car, is it much of a leap to assume they’ll smash you up with their deadly weapons once the get through the windows? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/63 "2018-04-03T20:08:50Z")
I see no reason for changing any laws. The laws justifying lethal force in self defense seem enough to me. There should be no other legal reason to hit people with an automobile. Heart attacks in progress or no. That said, there _are_ situations where the right thing to do might be to run over some violent pedestrians. Cars and trucks aren’t tanks. If [Reginald Denny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny) had managed to escape, I would not hold it against him if his truck ran over a few of his assailants on his way to safety. But that’s an _extremely_ rare scenario that I don’t think requires any new legislation. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/64 "2018-04-03T20:09:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Ah, but the person was an anti-Trump protester. Therefore it is highly unlikely that the protester was a libertarian, and thus is not responsible to jump out of the way. I suspect the courts are going to find that the driver has no liability for the collision. I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/65 "2018-04-03T20:12:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The protestors are inconveniencing people, not threatening bodily harm. . Smashing car windows and dragging people out is indeed “threatening bodily harm”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/66 "2018-04-03T20:19:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is the idea that > > 1. Driving through protestors and hitting them is only justified in extreme situations (i.e., one is having a life-threatening emergency and will die unless one gets to the ER), but never justified any other time? If so, I can agree with that. > > Or is it > > 1. \*\*\*Never \*\*\*justified - even if you’re having a heart attack, and demonstrators block your way, you should just sit there with the car stopped and die? If you have an emergency, you roll down your window, call one of the participants over and ask for help. Almost any protest will make way for a medical emergency if you ask them to. If you try to force your way through, no one is going to know that you are not just an impatient asshole or attacker, because cars tend to divide people between inside them and outside them. Imagine for a moment that you are on vacation at a friend’s cottage in Bumfuckia. You have a medical emergency and have to get to the hospital _ **now** _. But when you get to Poduncton, they are having a parade (that you had no way of knowing about because you are not from around there) and the hospital is on the other side of town. Do you just plow through Poduncton’s happy celebration without a word to anyone? Or, maybe, ask someone for help? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/67 "2018-04-03T20:21:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is the idea that > > 1. Driving through protestors and hitting them is only justified in extreme situations (i.e., one is having a life-threatening emergency and will die unless one gets to the ER), but never justified any other time? If so, I can agree with that. > > Or is it > > 1. \*\*\*Never \*\*\*justified - even if you’re having a heart attack, and demonstrators block your way, you should just sit there with the car stopped and die? A) run down people in the street, B) die in the stopped car, or C) roll down the window and yell “Heart Attack!! Need hospital!!” and see if that gets you through. And yes, the choice is really only in effect if you’re at the front of the line of stopped cars. (should have previewed) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/68 "2018-04-03T20:21:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > …to my knowledge, make a regular habit of disrupting traffic or blocking freeways. OWS / Antifa / BLM seem to though. The nature of the protests has changed. They’ve decided to ignore the reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions in place. I meant to address this earlier. [Blocking](https://www.loc.gov/wiseguide/oct11/images/rights-a.jpg) [streets](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-8cOUUTM_3U/maxresdefault.jpg) [is](http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/marintheatre.org-assets/images/productions/choir-boy/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom_Martin_Luther_King_Jr._and_Joachim_Prinz_1963.jpg) [a](http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/1th1j/picture7434785/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/AP6503210103%20(1).jpg) [time-honored](https://media.pri.org/s3fs-public/styles/story_main/public/photos/2013-March/selma_alabama_march.jpg?itok=Hav9Pjey) [result](https://ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/14256773594089.jpg?w=1024&quality=80&strip=all&h=738) [of](http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2013/06/05/a5dbdd51-d25a-11e2-a43e-02911869d855/PF111812.jpg) [people](https://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2012/01/X00077_9.JPG.jpeg?alias=standard_540x360) [protesting.](https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N001_0800_013.jpg) Maybe you think they should rally in their church parking lot and stay there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/69 "2018-04-03T20:26:16Z")
My usual route home, from points east of me, takes me past the rec center where Tamir Rice was killed. There were expected to be protests on the day the jury handed down the verdict on his killers. I therefore chose a different route home that day. Now, if I had had some absolutely urgent reason that I _must_ get home quickly on that day, and lives were depending on it, then I would have… made even more sure to take a different route home that day, because protestors are going to slow you down considerably even if you are allowed to drive through them. If I had been anywhere near the protest, then it would have been either because I intended to protest, too, or because I was opposed to the protest. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/70 "2018-04-03T20:26:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Nope. If a loved one is having a heart attack, stroke, or similar life-threatening emergency and I am driving them to the hospital, and my car is being blocked by demonstrators, I am not going to let my loved one die in the name of social justice or animal rights or gun control or Westboro Baptist or [insert cause]. Ok, then you face justice for your actions and accept the consequences. That’s the choice there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/71 "2018-04-03T20:28:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Smashing car windows and dragging people out is indeed “threatening bodily harm”. How often has that happened? Which is to say it is often enough that you should just hit the accelerator and drive through the crowd when you see a BLM protest? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/72 "2018-04-03T20:41:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve got to run now, but perhaps you’d like to elaborate on this point a bit more. It’s not clear to me what you are referring to here or how it would relate to this civil immunity bill. Gun control advocates want to pass new laws to help stop or reduce mass shootings. Gun rights activists say that criminals don’t follow laws, so new laws won’t stop criminals. Conservatives don’t like liberal protesters inconveniencing them by being in the road, so they want to pass a law to reduce or prevent instances of protesters inconveniencing them by being in the road. However when I brought up just passing laws making it illegal to protest in the street rather than legalizing automotive homicide you said: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Generally speaking, we’ve already done this. The problems usually arise when the protesters ignore the law and protest in the street anyways. So you think passing the “run them over” laws will prevent something that you admit we already have laws against. Why will this new law do what the other law didn’t? I think its because these laws are really just designed to threaten and intimidate protesters and give cover to those that want to threaten and intimidate protesters. The fact that you admit that passing laws won’t stop them protesting in the streets makes this pretty plain in my estimation. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think you’re wrong here. I think the protests have changed significantly. Tea Partiers did not, to my knowledge, make a regular habit of disrupting traffic or blocking freeways. OWS / Antifa / BLM seem to though. The nature of the protests has changed. They’ve decided to ignore the reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions in place. When they do that, there’s the potential for injury (just like the late-night freeway collision I posted earlier), but the driver should not be liable for the bad acts of the protesters. Thus, a clarification in the law seems appropriate. No, protests haven’t changed. Vietnam war protests, civil rights protests involved marching in the streets and over bridges, and got pretty uncivil sometimes, albeit mostly from the anti-side, rodney king riots in the 90s. French Revolution was pretty upsetting to the ruling class. The Boston Tea Party was all about destroying property and fouled the entire harbor. I mean this isn’t new, its just that right wing media is really pushing this as an urgent issue that must be fixed… now that the protesters are protesting against the right wing agenda. They focus on the few instances of bad actors to paint the entire protest, and the entire political movement behind them, as violent and law breaking. You are being painted a picture that isn’t a true depiction of reality when it comes to protests that are happening currently. The student walk out was 99.99% peaceful, heartfelt and inspirational, but if you look at what right wingers were sharing on facebook it was almost entirely about that one group of kids that went to walmart instead and caused problems (where were the teachers and security for that one school?). As if that one instance is enough to smear the entire movement. This is why all of a sudden we need to pass “its ok to kill protesters” laws when this has never been an issue before. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/73 "2018-04-03T20:47:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In most states the answer is something like: when a reasonable person would believe the use of force is necessary to prevent or put a stop to another’s unlawful actions that threaten to result in great bodily harm or death. That sounds reasonable to me. So why do we need new laws? Looks to me like some people are trying to legalize unreasonable acts. You should be able to defend yourself from a genuine danger. You should not be able to run people over because you’re annoyed and then claim it was self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/74 "2018-04-03T20:59:42Z")
I agree with the others who see no need to change any laws. If someone is being threatened, they are within their rights to use proportionate force to deal with that threat, whether it is punching back, firing a gun, or driving away. The idea that protesters in the streets may be killed free of civil or criminal penalty regardless of the nature of the “threat” or the proportionality of driving through them, is really sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/75 "2018-04-03T21:05:11Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Conservatives don’t like liberal protesters inconveniencing them by being in the road, so they want to pass a law to reduce or prevent instances of protesters inconveniencing them by being in the road. However when I brought up just passing laws making it illegal to protest in the street rather than legalizing automotive homicide you said: > > … > > So you think passing the “run them over” laws will prevent something that you admit we already have laws against. Why will this new law do what the other law didn’t? I think its because these laws are really just designed to threaten and intimidate protesters and give cover to those that want to threaten and intimidate protesters. The fact that you admit that passing laws won’t stop them protesting in the streets makes this pretty plain in my estimation. Conservatives seem really bad at understanding laws like these cut both ways. Today it is liberals protesting. Tomorrow it may well be conservatives protesting. Maybe [The Blues Brothers showed us the way.](https://youtu.be/ZTT1qUswYL0?t=89) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/76 "2018-04-03T21:39:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well that dental appointment you have been waiting days for or that job interview your are desperate for could be VERY important. > > In that case I dont see anything wrong if you lay on your horn and slowly work your way thru. Yes, your cars going to get alot of dents and scratches. But I think if you used diligence in trying to be safe I dont see an issue. And of course you can always wash the blood and guts off, but hey, my dentist HATES it when I’m late because I’m too much of a pussy to avoid hitting people with my car. (Seriously, WTF?) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/77 "2018-04-03T22:01:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is the idea that > > 1. Driving through protestors and hitting them is only justified in extreme situations (i.e., one is having a life-threatening emergency and will die unless one gets to the ER), but never justified any other time? If so, I can agree with that. If one of the protesters is legally concealed carrying, are they justified in shooting you to defend themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/78 "2018-04-03T22:07:27Z")
Realised I forgot to actually answer the question in my first post, so here is the actual answer. Never. Whew, that was an easy one. It kinda boggles my mind that people are arguing over this, to be honest. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6, well if you consider a life behind bars worth living, perhaps a early exit is better for all involved. Jail’s not a pleasant place, but I find it completely absurd and somewhat offensive to suggest you are better off killing yourself than going there. That’s the definition of a permanent solution to a temporary problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/79 "2018-04-03T22:15:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If one of the protesters is legally concealed carrying, are they justified in shooting you to defend themselves? And is someone else justified in killing the person who is about to kill the driver who is trying to get away from the murderous leftist who is assaulting your car? ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/80 "2018-04-03T22:26:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I meant to address this earlier. > > [Blocking](https://www.loc.gov/wiseguide/oct11/images/rights-a.jpg) [streets](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-8cOUUTM_3U/maxresdefault.jpg) [is](http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/marintheatre.org-assets/images/productions/choir-boy/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom_Martin_Luther_King_Jr._and_Joachim_Prinz_1963.jpg) [a](http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/1th1j/picture7434785/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/AP6503210103%20(1).jpg) [time-honored](https://media.pri.org/s3fs-public/styles/story_main/public/photos/2013-March/selma_alabama_march.jpg?itok=Hav9Pjey) [result](https://ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/14256773594089.jpg?w=1024&quality=80&strip=all&h=738) [of](http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2013/06/05/a5dbdd51-d25a-11e2-a43e-02911869d855/PF111812.jpg) [people](https://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2012/01/X00077_9.JPG.jpeg?alias=standard_540x360) [protesting.](https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N001_0800_013.jpg) > > Maybe you think they should rally in their church parking lot and stay there. Yes I do, because that not breaking any of society’s laws, and not harming innocent people by delaying them getting home to their families and infringing on their 5th amendment right to travel. There’s a reason we have laws against blocking roads- protestors rights end where someone else’s rights begin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=5)