# When should a person have the right to drive thru a crowd of demonstrators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732 "2018-04-03T17:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/81 "2018-04-03T22:30:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Conservatives seem really bad at understanding laws like these cut both ways. > > Today it is liberals protesting. Tomorrow it may well be conservatives protesting. > > Maybe [The Blues Brothers showed us the way.](https://youtu.be/ZTT1qUswYL0?t=89) šŸ˜‰ When have the conservatives ever protested by shutting down freeways? Or doing anything else illegal? You didnā€™t hear about the Tea Party doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/82 "2018-04-03T22:35:15Z")
What part of this is about the fucking Tea Party? Are they the gold standard of protesting or something? Because they can and did shut down freeways any number of times. Your inability to remember the faults of your own party aside. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/83 "2018-04-03T22:39:45Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > When have the conservatives ever protested by shutting down freeways? Or doing anything else illegal? You didnā€™t hear about the Tea Party doing that. Calling the Tea-shirts ā€œconservativesā€ is ridiculous. They were/are some other thing. Actual conservatives are not so easily led down the garden path. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/84 "2018-04-03T22:42:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think youā€™re wrong here. I think the protests have changed significantly. Tea Partiers did not, to my knowledge, make a regular habit of disrupting traffic or blocking freeways. OWS / Antifa / BLM seem to though. The nature of the protests has changed. I notice you donā€™t offer any evidence to support any of this. What do I think? I think youā€™re letting ideology color how you judge the behavior of people demonstrating in public. Ten thousand people demonstrate and a hundred people in the crowd commit some crimes. If you support the cause, it was a peaceful demonstration. If you oppose the cause, it was a riot. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/85 "2018-04-03T23:16:22Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > ā€¦infringing on their 5th amendment right to travel. ā€¦ Their what, now? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/86 "2018-04-03T23:19:58Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Their what, now? Donā€™t infringe on his 11th Amendment right to make up things that sound official. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/87 "2018-04-03T23:20:45Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Their what, now? ā€œIā€™m not driving Iā€™m traveling!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/88 "2018-04-03T23:24:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In most states the answer is something like: when a reasonable person would believe the use of force is necessary to prevent or put a stop to anotherā€™s unlawful actions that threaten to result in great bodily harm or death. Is this really the case? Given the fact (as other posters have said) that the person you hit is very likely to be nothing to do with the person who is threatening you with bodily crime. Are there jurisdictions where, if I drive through a crowd of school kids to prevent a reasonable threat to my life, I will get off Scott free? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/89 "2018-04-03T23:27:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I donā€™t think either of us have any way of knowing if your speculation is correct or not. I would hope that the net effect of the law would be that protesters wise up, change their behavior, and stay the hell out of traffic. This pretty much is the last word that needs to be spoken. There should be absolutely no right to drive a vehicle into protesters. There is absolutely zero reason to give drivers any expectation that they will never be hindered by people expressing their political views. Protesting is one of the most fundamental rights in our society. It is part of what makes us American, what makes us good, to the extent that we can claim to be good at all. Itā€™s part of what our countryā€™s values are based on. So given what you say here, I would say fuck no to any right at all to run over a protester with a car. Anything else I would have to say on this topic belongs in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/90 "2018-04-03T23:37:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So given what you say here, I would say fuck no to any right at all to run over a protester with a car. That clearly holds for the protesters in the video in OP. While they are clearly idiots who are doing eff-all for the cause they ares supposedly supporting, if any of those cars ran them over the driver should, and would, be charged with assault/murder. But there are clearly cases when a driver could claim to be reasonably threatened with bodily harm. E.g. this one: > **[Watch: Critical Mass cyclist attacks car with U-lock in San Francisco:](https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/09/01/watch-critical-mass-cyclist-attacks-car-with-u-lock-in-san-francisco/)** > > Watch: Critical Mass cyclist attacks car with U-lock in San Francisco: I would still say they still shouldnā€™t have the right to drive off through a crowd of people who were NOT the guy whaling on them with a U-lock. I am fairly sure the law agrees with me on this, pretty much everywhere (in the US at least). But Iā€™d like to hear a lawyerā€™s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/91 "2018-04-03T23:37:56Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Their what, now? _ā€¦ nor be deprived of life, **[COLOR=ā€œBlackā€]liberty**, or property, without due process of law; ā€¦_[/COLOR] Because, protesters are the government (toward which the fifth is uncorked). Or something. It is illegal for you to tell me to shut up, because my 1st Amendment right of free speech protects me from you, because you are, like, the government. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/92 "2018-04-04T00:01:13Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > When have the conservatives ever protested by shutting down freeways? Or doing anything else illegal? You didnā€™t hear about the Tea Party doing that. Hereā€™s [one.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/TeaPartyByFreedomFan.JPG) ([Another view.](https://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2009/09/tea-party-rally_huge_wash-dc.bmp)) Hereā€™s [another.](https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/kkkparade-12.jpg) And [another.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/07/19/us/19COLUMBIA/19COLUMBIA-master1050.jpg) And [another.](https://newsregister.com/pub/photo/thumb/kkk-march-lincoln-maine-1924-1500_fitbox_1000x1000.gif) And yet [another.](https://www.jta.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/German_American_Bund_NYWTS1-e1427317652167.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/93 "2018-04-04T00:02:27Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Yes I do, because that not breaking any of societyā€™s laws, and not harming innocent people by delaying them getting home to their families and infringing on their 5th amendment right to travel. Thereā€™s a reason we have laws against blocking roads- protestors rights end where someone elseā€™s rights begin. You realize it is literally impossible for BLM marchers to violate your constitutional rights donā€™t you? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/94 "2018-04-04T00:04:53Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Calling the Tea-shirts ā€œconservativesā€ is ridiculous. They were/are some other thing. Actual conservatives are not so easily led down the garden path. No true Scotsman amiright? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/95 "2018-04-04T00:06:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If one of the protesters is legally concealed carrying, are they justified in shooting you to defend themselves? Generally youā€™re not justified in using deadly force if the encounter was started by your own law-breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/96 "2018-04-04T00:16:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Generally youā€™re not justified in using deadly force if the encounter was started by your own law-breaking. That was not the situation presented however. > [@Velocity](#): > > Is the idea that > > 1. Driving through protestors and hitting them is only justified in extreme situations (i.e., one is having a life-threatening emergency and will die unless one gets to the ER), but never justified any other time? If so, I can agree with that. In this scenario, the protesters are not violating any law. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/97 "2018-04-04T00:21:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You realize it is literally impossible for BLM marchers to violate your constitutional rights donā€™t you? They do every time the blockade a freeway. The Kent v. Dulles case established that travel is a right that you cannot be deprived of without 5th amendment due process protections. Therefore theyā€™re infringing on the right of myself and every other innocent person in the city trying to travel that particular freeway. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/98 "2018-04-04T00:25:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hereā€™s [one.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/TeaPartyByFreedomFan.JPG) ([Another view.](https://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2009/09/tea-party-rally_huge_wash-dc.bmp)) > > Hereā€™s [another.](https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/kkkparade-12.jpg) > > And [another.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/07/19/us/19COLUMBIA/19COLUMBIA-master1050.jpg) > > And [another.](https://newsregister.com/pub/photo/thumb/kkk-march-lincoln-maine-1924-1500_fitbox_1000x1000.gif) > > And yet [another.](https://www.jta.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/German_American_Bund_NYWTS1-e1427317652167.jpg) How many of those are freeways where innocent victims would have a hard time picking another route? How many were legal parades? In how many was a proper permit obtained? I guarantee that Black Lives Matter didnā€™tā€™ get a proper permit for protesting in a freeway like you can get for protesting on a city street. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/99 "2018-04-04T00:34:35Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > They do every time the blockade a freeway. The Kent v. Dulles case established that travel is a right that you cannot be deprived of without 5th amendment due process protections. Therefore theyā€™re infringing on the right of myself and every other innocent person in the city trying to travel that particular freeway. Kent v. Dulles only says you have a right to travel. It does not guarantee you access to a particular freeway. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732/100 "2018-04-04T00:48:19Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > How many of those are freeways where innocent victims would have a hard time picking another route? > > How many were legal parades? > > In how many was a proper permit obtained? I guarantee that Black Lives Matter didnā€™tā€™ get a proper permit for protesting in a freeway like you can get for protesting on a city street. Is it your contention then that you can be deprived of your 5th amendment right to travel as long as the state gives someone a permit allowing them to do so? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-should-a-person-have-the-right-to-drive-thru-a-crowd-of-demonstrators/811732.md?page=6)