# When Someone is Having a Seizure, Don't Touch Them **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765 "2014-08-17T17:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/1 "2014-08-17T17:48:02Z")
This came up in a thread about service dogs, and how one person had a “seizure alert dog” that became protective of the person while a seizure was taking place. What you see on TV is wrong. Fictional TV shows never show the proper way to respond to a seizure. Do NOT touch, restrain, or otherwise interfere with the person while they’re convulsing. You will break their bones; cause severe muscle injuries; or otherwise harm them much more than they would have been harmed. –If the person is in immediate danger from something that you can’t move, then use common sense. (If they’re in a collapsing building, then move them.) Do NOT put anything in their mouth. There is zero chance of them swallowing their tongue. There is a 100% chance that you will break their teeth, and a high chance of you breaking their jaw. Do move objects that they may hurt themselves on, if possible. If not, then put padding between the object and the person–but DO NOT TOUCH THE PERSON. Wait for the seizure to subside, then make sure they’re ok. Remember, touching someone without their permission, especially in a way that is likely to cause bodily harm is assault/battery. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/2 "2014-08-17T18:14:27Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > This came up in a thread about service dogs, and how one person had a “seizure alert dog” that became protective of the person while a seizure was taking place. > > What you see on TV is wrong. Fictional TV shows never show the proper way to respond to a seizure. > > Do NOT touch, restrain, or otherwise interfere with the person while they’re convulsing. You will break their bones; cause severe muscle injuries; or otherwise harm them much more than they would have been harmed. > > –If the person is in immediate danger from something that you can’t move, then use common sense. (If they’re in a collapsing building, then move them.) > > Do NOT put anything in their mouth. There is zero chance of them swallowing their tongue. There is a 100% chance that you will break their teeth, and a high chance of you breaking their jaw. > > Do move objects that they may hurt themselves on, if possible. If not, then put padding between the object and the person–but DO NOT TOUCH THE PERSON. > > Wait for the seizure to subside, then make sure they’re ok. > > Remember, touching someone without their permission, especially in a way that is likely to cause bodily harm is assault/battery. Basic physics would indicate that touching them is not going to break bones, cause muscle damage, etc. They don’t turn into glass during a seizure. Forcibly preventing movement associated with the seizure might, although you’d stand a similar risk of injuring yourself in the process. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/3 "2014-08-17T18:18:21Z")
Yeah, it’s not a bad idea to get their head off the floor as well. I’ve seen two instances of people almost knocking themselves silly banging their head on the floor. Slip a pillow or a coat under there. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/4 "2014-08-17T18:37:09Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > Remember, touching someone without their permission, especially in a way that is likely to cause bodily harm is assault/battery. rendering first aid to a person you believes needs help is not assault/battery in many countries, provinces and states in the world. depends on your local laws. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/5 "2014-08-17T18:42:16Z")
OP, what quallifies you to give either medical or legal advice? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/6 "2014-08-17T18:47:22Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > OP, what quallifies you to give either medical or legal advice? Anyone who’s taken first aid classes knows this stuff. [From the CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/epilepsy/basics/first_aid.htm) Just a sampler, there’s more on that page. > [@](#): > > Keep calm and reassure other people who may be nearby. > Prevent injury by clearing the area around the person of anything hard or sharp. > Ease the person to the floor and put something soft and flat, like a folded jacket, under his head. > Remove eyeglasses and loosen ties or anything around the neck that may make breathing difficult. > Time the seizure with your watch. If the seizure continues for longer than five minutes without signs of slowing down or if a person has trouble breathing afterwards, appears to be injured, in pain, or recovery is unusual in some way, call 911. > Do not hold the person down or try to stop his movements. > Contrary to popular belief, it is not true that a person having a seizure can swallow his tongue. Do not put anything in the person’s mouth. Efforts to hold the tongue down can injure the teeth or jaw. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/7 "2014-08-17T18:47:37Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > OP, what quallifies you to give either medical or legal advice? Well if it’s an unreasonable seizure as defined by the 4th Amendment, you’re allowed to move the body lest you run afoul of habius corpus. ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/8 "2014-08-17T19:45:38Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Basic physics would indicate that touching them is not going to break bones, cause muscle damage, etc. They don’t turn into glass during a seizure. Forcibly preventing movement associated with the seizure might, although you’d stand a similar risk of injuring yourself in the process. You must have missed the part where I said “restrain”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/9 "2014-08-17T19:56:39Z")
Epileptic speaking up: Touching a person who’s having a seizure will not break anyone’s bones, injure muscles, etc – not the person having a seizure or you. But just letting someone lie around and seize is not a good idea either. Please lower the person to the floor, and slightly elevate their head. Make sure to turn them on their side, just in case they start to vomit. And never, EVER, put your hand, or anything else in their mouth. Even if you don’t injure their jaw, you’ll definitely get bitten. My mother learned THAT the hard way. But for the love of god, don’t just stand there and watch someone seizing. Time the seizure, and only if it lasts long than five minutes, call an ambulance. (Some people get the idea that every seizure is an emergency, and tend to call 911 any time someone has one. The fact is, most of the time, seizures aren’t emergencies, and most people stop within a minute. Said person will be confused, tired, and usually want to sleep. That’s normal. Calling for an ambulance every time has been a problem for many epileptics – mainly because there’s really nothing an EMT can do, and then the patient is stuck with a large bill. (This is largely my experience. Your’s may be otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/10 "2014-08-17T20:12:06Z")
I usually ask a bystander for a wallet to put in the victim’s mouth. I sure wouldn’t put it in the victim’s mouth though, why would I get teeth marks and saliva on my free wallet? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/11 "2014-08-17T20:43:01Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But for the love of god, don’t just stand there and watch someone seizing. Time the seizure, and only if it lasts long than five minutes, call an ambulance. (Some people get the idea that every seizure is an emergency, and tend to call 911 any time someone has one. The fact is, most of the time, seizures aren’t emergencies, and most people stop within a minute. Said person will be confused, tired, and usually want to sleep. That’s normal. > > Calling for an ambulance every time has been a problem for many epileptics – mainly because there’s really nothing an EMT can do, and then the patient is stuck with a large bill. This right here - do **not** automatically call an ambulance! I’ve been working on a couple epilepsy research studies lately, and it is a true financial hardship for people with epilepsy when they wake up in an ambulance being transported to the ER for a non-emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/12 "2014-08-17T21:02:26Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > You must have missed the part where I said “restrain”. You didn’t just say “restrain”: > [@PorchePine](#): > > Do NOT touch, restrain, or otherwise interfere ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/13 "2014-08-17T22:09:36Z")
Thanks for the infos. I knew about the swallowing the tongue thing but didn’t realize that we shouldn’t try to keep the person still. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/14 "2014-08-17T22:19:33Z")
Common sense is important - put something soft between the head and hard stuff. When I was witnessing a person having a seizure on a Chicago El platform a couple of us dragged him away from the edge of the platform to keep him from falling on the tracks but otherwise didn’t restrain him. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/15 "2014-08-17T23:01:21Z")
Unless someone has specifically told you that they have seizures and under what circumstances you should or should not call an ambulance, it is unreasonable to expect anyone to take it upon themselves to wait and see. It isn’t as if we can count on an ambulance to arrive seconds after summoning it. Sorry about any expenses this incurs, but better than explaining to the person’s family that you thought that heart attack was a seizure and wasted precious minutest me now their loved one is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/16 "2014-08-17T23:59:29Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > You must have missed the part where I said “restrain”. You must have forgotten the title of the thread (that you typed). ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/17 "2014-08-18T00:02:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Anyone who’s taken first aid classes knows this stuff. > [From the CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/epilepsy/basics/first_aid.htm) > Just a sampler, there’s more on that page. and one of the points in the CDC article is “Turn the person gently onto one side. This will help keep the airway clear.”. That would be kind of difficult if you weren’t supposed to touch the person, wouldn’t it? (comment directed at OP, not **running coach** ). ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/18 "2014-08-18T00:12:26Z")
As far as calling an ambulance… an extended seizure is an emergency, and may be the rare life threatening circumstance of [status epilepticus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_epilepticus). SE is generally defined as an unremitting seizure lasting more than a certain time limit. Opinions about what the appropriate time limit should be have varied from 5 to 30 minutes. (The doctor supervising the medical standards at our 911 centre says to use fifteen minutes as our standard. Local standards may vary) If you have already waited 5 minutes before calling the ambulance then it delays the arrival of EMS. Figure 5 minute delay + call processing/dispatch time + average response time to patient’s location. If the patient is still seizing at that point then it is likely SE. In our jurisdiction call processing/dispatch time is about 90 seconds and average response time is 8 minutes for the ambulance. I’ve had calls (multiple) in which a SE patient died. I wonder if some of them could have been saved with a more rapid 911 call. ---
**Author:** ![CatherineZeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@CatherineZeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatherineZeta)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/19 "2014-08-18T00:25:46Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Unless someone has specifically told you that they have seizures and under what circumstances you should or should not call an ambulance, it is unreasonable to expect anyone to take it upon themselves to wait and see. It isn’t as if we can count on an ambulance to arrive seconds after summoning it. Sorry about any expenses this incurs, but better than explaining to the person’s family that you thought that heart attack was a seizure and wasted precious minutest me now their loved one is dead. Could another medical condition like a heart attack be mistaken for a seizure? One thing I’d be worried about is the _why_\*\* for the seizure as they can be caused by other causes than epilepsy. For all I know the person is overdosing, has a brain tumor, etc. That said, is waiting a minute for it to stop and then calling EMS reasonable? If EMS is called and the person is determined to be fine and does not have to get in the ambulance and be treated, are they still stuck with a huge bill? I’m not saying lives are less important than a huge medical bill, but having to pay thousands over nothing is also absurd. I asked a guy who was studying to be an EMT what to do if someone calls 911 on you and you don’t wish to be treated and he said run like hell. That said, he was kind of a moron, so who knows. The subject came up because a friend of mine fell and was not seriously injured, but took a minute to get up and someone called 911, but hung up when my friend told the person not to call. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765/20 "2014-08-18T00:50:54Z")
> [@CatherineZeta](#): > > Could another medical condition like a heart attack be mistaken for a seizure? > > One thing I’d be worried about is the _why_\*\* for the seizure as they can be caused by other causes than epilepsy. For all I know the person is overdosing, has a brain tumor, etc. That said, is waiting a minute for it to stop and then calling EMS reasonable? If EMS is called and the person is determined to be fine and does not have to get in the ambulance and be treated, are they still stuck with a huge bill? I’m not saying lives are less important than a huge medical bill, but having to pay thousands over nothing is also absurd. > > I asked a guy who was studying to be an EMT what to do if someone calls 911 on you and you don’t wish to be treated and he said run like hell. That said, he was kind of a moron, so who knows. The subject came up because a friend of mine fell and was not seriously injured, but took a minute to get up and someone called 911, but hung up when my friend told the person not to call. I don’t feel comfortable staking someone’s life on my determination of whether someone is having a seizure, heart attack, overdose, or whatever. I’m not a moron, but I’m also not a doctor. And why waste precious minutes before deciding a seizure has been going on too long and then more minutes waiting for an ambulance to arrive? I’d rather not live the rest of my life with the knowledge that someone is dead because I didn’t call in time, let alone deal with being rightly blamed for not taking action by everyone that cared about the person. I wouldn’t even be surprised to be held legally responsible. “So you just stood there while the person convulsed? Why didn’t you call 911?” “Well, I read on the Dope that this was the thing to do…” I’m sure that will make everyone feel better. Where I live, the paramedics will check you out on the spot to some degree and do not bill you unless you agree to go to the hospital if they believe that is necessary and you are conscious. No need to run away. If you aren’t conscious, then off you go, bill to follow. I’m sure it varies depending on where you live. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-someone-is-having-a-seizure-dont-touch-them/695765.md?page=2)