# When surrogacy goes bad.... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626 "2014-08-02T06:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/81 "2014-08-04T23:22:31Z")
BBC TV is now reporting that the Aussie couple are denying even being the biological parents of Gammy. They say they do have a baby girl who is about the same age as Gammy but insists the woman who was their surrogate did not have twins. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/82 "2014-08-05T00:11:26Z")
Y’know, I’m wondering about something: with IVF, it is actually possible to extract a cell from a blastocyst before transfer and examine it for defects. It can be examined for genetic defects if the parents are known to be carriers of something (like cystic fibrosis or Tay-Sachs), and occasionally normally fertile couples choose IVF in order to have this done, so they won’t have to deal with amniocentesis and possibly abortion later. I was under the impression somehow that it was routine in the US to examine a cell from a blastocyst before transfer for things like trisomies, fragile X, chromosomal deletions, and transmutations (where a piece of a chromosome breaks off, and reattaches backwards, or attaches to another chromosome). I realize that it is possible for a blastocyst to have mosaic condition, so that it could happen that the examined cell was normal, but other cells were abnormal. I suppose it’s not routinely done everywhere, and not required by anything. It may not even be recommended if you want the best chance for implantation (IANAD). But all these conflicting stories make me wonder if the fertility clinic was supposed to do this and didn’t, or made some kind of error, and now there is a cover-up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/83 "2014-08-05T00:41:43Z")
It’ll be a piece of cake to determine who the biological parents are. This story gets more bizarre by the minute. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/84 "2014-08-05T02:07:03Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > It’ll be a piece of cake to determine who the biological parents are. This story gets more bizarre by the minute. Assuming they pony up samples, or the fertility clinic has some on file. Or can the Aus gov’t just demand them of citizens? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/85 "2014-08-05T02:09:26Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > They wanted to abort the kid, and the surrogate opposed it. Why shouldn’t she be the one to take care of it? I’m sure that there are plenty of kids born to poor mothers in Thailand. Why is this one different? In my mind, once the biological parents pushed for the abortion, and the surrogate refused, it became her child. I don’t know what the law says. Who legally has custody right now? Seems to me that surrogate parents are like fathers. They cannot make a woman abort a child, and they cannot free themselves of responsibility for that child either. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/86 "2014-08-05T02:24:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I can certainly imagine the Thai agency lying. After all, this _is_ Thailand. But I wouldn’t be surprised about the parents lying either. What a positive view of humanity you have! 😉 But yeah, I’m inclined to agree with this. I can see the agency thinking “OK, it’s twins and one has Down’s Syndrome, so we’ll just pretend the healthy one was the only one who ever existed, hand her over, and stick the other one somewhere discreet.” I can also picture the parents panicking at the media spotlight and trying to make people believe the above happened. > [@kambuckta](#): > > And in yet another turn to this story, it seems the father has convictions (and has served jail time) for [indecently assaulting a 13yr old child in 1998.](http://www.aww.com.au/news-features/news-stories/2014/8/gammys-father-has-criminal-conviction/) > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > BBC TV is now reporting that the Aussie couple are denying even being the biological parents of Gammy. They say they do have a baby girl who is about the same age as Gammy but insists the woman who was their surrogate did not have twins. Aaaand things just got even weirder. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/87 "2014-08-05T02:42:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Seems to me that surrogate parents are like fathers. They cannot make a woman abort a child, and they cannot free themselves of responsibility for that child either. I agree that’s how it should be. We are responsible for the children we create. If we aren’t in control of the body gestating the child, and therefore we can’t guarantee an abortion if something goes wrong, well, we’d better make sure we are only causing a pregnancy in a person who is okay with abortion. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/88 "2014-08-05T02:48:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Seems to me that surrogate parents are like fathers. They cannot make a woman abort a child, and they cannot free themselves of responsibility for that child either. I think you have that backwards. The surrogate is the gestational mother, whether or not she has a biological relationship to the baby. The parents who contracted for the surrogacy, the male partner of which is nearly always the sperm donor, and the female is often the ovum donor, are _not_ the “surrogates”; they are usually called the bio parents, or the genetic parents. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/89 "2014-08-05T08:46:56Z")
So, reading the latest coverage, over the last couple of days Gammy’s bio parents have said: - they only have a daughter, not a son - the surrogacy agency never told them there was a boy child too - they never met the surrogate - they never asked for an abortion because they didn’t know about the other baby - they knew about the other baby, but didn’t know he had Downs Syndrome. - they didn’t know the other baby had survived - they only left him because the Thai government had collapsed and they thought they were going to lose both children unless they fled immediately - doctors told them the boy was too sick to move, that he had a heart and lung condition and that he wouldn’t survive another day - also the surrogate is a liar David Farnell, the biofather, was convicted of six counts of dealing indecently with a child under 13 and sentenced to 3 years jail while he was already serving a sentence for two earlier convictions of sexually molesting girls under the age of 10. His wife, Wendy Farnell, says she knows about his convictions, but says he’s changed. What charming people. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/90 "2014-08-05T08:49:58Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > So, reading the latest coverage, over the last couple of days Gammy’s bio parents have said: > > - they only have a daughter, not a son > - the surrogacy agency never told them there was a boy child too > - they never met the surrogate > - they never asked for an abortion because they didn’t know about the other baby > - they knew about the other baby, but didn’t know he had Downs Syndrome. > - they didn’t know the other baby had survived > - they only left him because the Thai government had collapsed and they thought they were going to lose both children unless they fled immediately > - doctors told them the boy was too sick to move, that he had a heart and lung condition and that he wouldn’t survive another day > - also the surrogate is a liar > > David Farnell, the biofather, was convicted of six counts of dealing indecently with a child under 13 and sentenced to 3 years jail while he was already serving a sentence for two earlier convictions of sexually molesting girls under the age of 10. > > His wife, Wendy Farnell, says she knows about his convictions, but says he’s changed. > > What charming people. Beat me by \<----------\> that much! 😉 Total clusterfuck wot. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/91 "2014-08-05T09:02:08Z")
It’s kind of amazing to watch the whole thing unfold. “Child molester pays woman in poverty to carry his child, then abandons child with disability” ticks all the boxes if you want to be a social pariah. In an earlier article, the claim was that his wife was “ethnically Asian”. Given the general pattern here, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was a mail-order bride as well. Even child molesters are able to have a wife and kids, if they know where to shop. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/92 "2014-08-05T09:31:28Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > It’s kind of amazing to watch the whole thing unfold. “Child molester pays woman in poverty to carry his child, then abandons child with disability” ticks all the boxes if you want to be a social pariah. > > In an earlier article, the claim was that his wife was “ethnically Asian”. Given the general pattern here, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was a mail-order bride as well. > > Even child molesters are able to have a wife and kids, if they know where to shop. I read that she was Thai and that she’s quite a bit younger than him… And on edit - given that he has so many, and such serious convictions against him, could any Aussie dopers chime in on what, if any, options the Australia equivalent to child protective services have? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/93 "2014-08-05T10:01:44Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I read that she was Thai and that she’s quite a bit younger than him… Latest news is that her name is Wendy Li, and they met via a Chinese dating site. > [@](#): > > And on edit - given that he has so many, and such serious convictions against him, could any Aussie dopers chime in on what, if any, options the Australia equivalent to child protective services have? According to the latest news reports (give them whatever credence you want!) is that the Western Australian Child Protective Services are ‘investigating’ the case. Given that he’s ‘served his time’ and that the child is his biologically, then I truly doubt there is anything they can do pre-emptively. IOW, I don’t think the child can be removed\* on the sole grounds\* that her father is a convicted sex-offender. But maybe someone else can chime in with the current WA law? ---
**Author:** ![Lorene89095](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@Lorene89095](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorene89095)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/94 "2014-08-05T11:10:58Z")
I read a report that the male “parent” is a convected child molester:eek: and that it;s ok for him to have a child by surroget. So it’s the child being male that they didn’t want?? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/95 "2014-08-05T12:25:21Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I think you have that backwards. The surrogate is the gestational mother, whether or not she has a biological relationship to the baby. The parents who contracted for the surrogacy, the male partner of which is nearly always the sperm donor, and the female is often the ovum donor, are _not_ the “surrogates”; they are usually called the bio parents, or the genetic parents. True, but it’s not their body, and once the child enters the world, they are still the biological parents and thus financially responsible even if they don’t want the child. I’m not talking legalities here, since I don’t know the legalities. Just the morality of it. The person, or in our joyful modern world, the people, who put a bun in someone else’s oven, aren’t in control of the situation. Only the woman carrying the child is. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/96 "2014-08-05T14:44:19Z")
If this new info is true, Gammy is surely better off not residing with these bio parents regardless of why he was left behind. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/97 "2014-08-05T15:43:06Z")
If the boy does have a heart condition, I wonder if it’s true that it wasn’t safe for him to travel, especially by airplane. I’m not saying this gives the parents a pass, I’m just saying that this one thing may actually be true, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/98 "2014-08-05T16:07:26Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I agree that’s how it should be. We are responsible for the children we create. If we aren’t in control of the body gestating the child, and therefore we can’t guarantee an abortion if something goes wrong, well, we’d better make sure we are only causing a pregnancy in a person who is okay with abortion. Unless you’re advocating the use of mind control techniques on one’s sex partners I wonder how you expect someone to adhere to this. Women are just as capable of lying as men. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/99 "2014-08-05T16:08:34Z")
And if you’re not okay with abortion, never, ever, have sex with a woman who is pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626/100 "2014-08-05T16:09:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Unless you’re advocating the use of mind control techniques on one’s sex partners I wonder how you expect someone to adhere to this. Women are just as capable of lying as men. Well, if you’re a man, or dealing with surrogacy, you’re taking a risk. Women are taking one set of risks, men another. Sucks to be human. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-surrogacy-goes-bad/694626.md?page=6)