# When The Adjective Follows The Noun (In English) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 17, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073 "2015-01-17T16:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/21 "2015-01-18T05:57:27Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Nitpick: The correct plural is _personae non gratae_ (Latin, not French; the adjective takes an ending)… Perhaps, but we’re not speaking Latin. We’re speaking English, where adjectives don’t take endings (unless you’re drunk or high, that is). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/22 "2015-01-18T06:05:05Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Perhaps, but we’re not speaking Latin. We’re speaking English, where adjectives don’t take endings (unless you’re drunk or high, that is). Then it would be better to say “People who aren’t wanted.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/23 "2015-01-18T10:05:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Additional note: With terms like _court martial_, the correct plural is _courts martial_ and not _court martials_. In other words, the ending goes on the noun and not the adjective, just as it should. This is correct, but there is some humor about this convention: [William Safire Orders Two Whoppers Junior](http://www.theonion.com/articles/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior,3351/) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/24 "2015-01-18T11:26:54Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > The convention in English is to put the adjective before the noun 99.99% of the time. Then you quoted some romance/latin terms … from when the Normans conquered England… And then you referred to Orlando… part of New Spain ? …with many romance/latin speakers , and also a german beer ? The pattern is… the other 0.01% is imported from some other language ? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/25 "2015-01-18T13:42:33Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > And 7-Up is a proper name (one 7-Up, two 7-Ups). 😃 No, it’s a simple mathematical progression. 7-Up, 14-Up, a pack of 42-Up, a case of 168-Up. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/26 "2015-01-18T15:03:44Z")
The most common use of the construction in English is in place names, most notably lakes: Lake Erie, Lake Michigan, Lake George, Lake Wobegon, Lake Placid, etc. There are also places like Port Jefferson, NY. (Yes, many of these are techically nouns, but they function as adjectives in the phrase, modifying the main noun.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/27 "2015-01-18T15:12:16Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The most common use of the construction in English is in place names, most notably lakes: Lake Erie, Lake Michigan, Lake George, Lake Wobegon, Lake Placid, etc. There are also places like Port Jefferson, NY. > > (Yes, many of these are techically nouns, but they function as adjectives in the phrase, modifying the main noun.) Interestingly, “Fort” always comes before the name (as in Fort McHenry), while “Castle” always comes after (as in Windsor Castle). I wonder why that is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/28 "2015-01-18T15:13:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The most common use of the construction in English is in place names, most notably lakes: Lake Erie, Lake Michigan, Lake George, Lake Wobegon, Lake Placid, etc. There are also places like Port Jefferson, NY. > > (Yes, many of these are techically nouns, but they function as adjectives in the phrase, modifying the main noun.) On the Stanford campus, Lake Lagunita. Otherwise known as Lake Lake. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/29 "2015-01-18T16:42:46Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > … > In American Sign Language, for example, classically it is “ball red.” … ASL is derived from French Sign Language. Most people are surprised to learn that an ASL speaker can understand French Sign Language to some extent and cannot understand British Sign Language at all. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/30 "2015-01-18T21:43:53Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Examples galore abound. galore comes from Irish _go leor_, which would normally come _before_ the noun in Irish: _go leor airgid_ = enough money. This makes it even more strange that it should end up being placed after the noun in English usage. (However, when qualifying an adjective in Irish, it comes after the adjective: _maith go leor_ = good enough; _ceart go leor_ = right enough.) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/31 "2015-01-18T21:58:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “Castle” always comes after (as in Windsor Castle). Not necessarily. _ **The Avengers** _ had an episode titled “Castle de’Ath,” set in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/32 "2015-01-18T23:29:46Z")
There’s also Key West, Key Largo, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/33 "2015-01-18T23:59:18Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Not necessarily. _ **The Avengers** _ had an episode titled “Castle de’Ath,” set in Scotland. A non-fictional example is [Castle Campbell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Campbell), which was once known as Castle Gloom, which is p. much the best, most Scottish name for anything, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/34 "2015-01-19T08:03:45Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > galore comes from Irish _go leor_, which would normally come _before_ the noun in Irish: _go leor airgid_ = enough money. This makes it even more strange that it should end up being placed after the noun in English usage. > > (However, when qualifying an adjective in Irish, it comes after the adjective: _maith go leor_ = good enough; _ceart go leor_ = right enough.) How about _uisge go leor_? 🙂 Someone mentioned “the house beautiful” upthread, which reminded me of the reviewer’s comment “_The House Beautiful_ is the play lousy”. But then, when your review is Dorothy Parker… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/35 "2015-01-19T08:15:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > A non-fictional example is [Castle Campbell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Campbell), which was once known as Castle Gloom, which is p. much the best, most Scottish name for anything, ever. Maybe “X Castle” is English, and “Castle X” is Scots. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/36 "2015-01-19T20:31:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Interestingly, “Fort” always comes before the name (as in Fort McHenry), while “Castle” always comes after (as in Windsor Castle). I wonder why that is. [Castle Grant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Grant) [Castle Levan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Levan) [Castle Drogo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Drogo) Castle Volkihar Castle Grayskull Castle Dracula ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/37 "2015-01-19T21:11:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Many of them come from the French, as Attorney General does. And the plural, as all right-thinking Dopers know, is “attorneys general.” ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/38 "2015-01-19T21:25:24Z")
> **[Postpositive adjective](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-positive_adjective)** > > A postpositive adjective or postnominal adjective is an adjective that is placed after the noun or pronoun that it modifies, as in noun phrases such as attorney general, queen regnant, or all matters financial. This contrasts with prepositive adjectives, which come before the noun or pronoun, as in noun phrases such as red rose, lucky contestant, or busy bees. > In some languages (Spanish, Welsh, Indonesian, etc.), the postpositive placement of adjectives is the normal syntax, but in English it is... The grammatical term is “post-positive adjective.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/39 "2015-01-19T22:57:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And the plural, as all right-thinking Dopers know, is “attorneys general.” Some thinkers on the right disagree, as in this [Wall Street Journal blog](http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/05/18/a-campaign-to-change-attorneys-general-to-attorney-generals/): > [@](#): > > We called Jim Tierney, the director of the National State Attorneys General program at Columbia Law School. Tierney (pictured), a former Maine attorney general who lives in Lisbon Falls, took delight in our call and encouraged us to start a movement to change “attorneys general” to “attorney generals.” > > “I am all for ‘attorney generals,’” said Tierney. “‘Attorneys general’ is stupid, silly and not the way we talk in Lisbon Falls. If anyone here ever had to say the plural they would want to say ‘attorney generals.’” He adds: “Start a movement to change it to ‘attorney generals’ and I will be first on line.” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073/40 "2015-01-19T23:54:09Z")
That works if your attorney general is a retired high-ranking military officer. Then he is an attorney General. If you have several of these, they are attorney Generals. This may work for the Surgeon General, who by tradition is a [military officer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C._Everett_Koop,_1980s.jpg) (even if that’s only honorary these days). I guess several of those would be Surgeon Generals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-adjective-follows-the-noun-in-english/710073.md?page=3)