# When the Hell did WW III start??! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355 "2006-07-06T13:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/21 "2006-07-06T22:02:32Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] My apologies, but I missed the news for a couple of days and I’m hoping somebody can catch me up. Has the imminent threat of war with North Korea put an official end to last month’s imminent threat of war with Iran? And was the imminent threat of war with Iran immediately after the imminent threat of war with Venezuela or was there another imminent threat of war with some country in May that I’ve forgotten? [/QUOTE] We were always at war with Eurasia. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/22 "2006-07-06T22:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=Mince] This is tame. Comparitively. You should listen to Alex Jones or Jeff Rense. I don’t _really_ recommend it; but if you’re searching for lost journalistic integrity, that’s the best place to start. [/QUOTE] “Lost” implies they had it at one time. While I believe most major news organizations are at least trying to hang on to some journalistic standards and integrity (sometimes failing, of course), I’ve seen nothing from either of those sites which even suggests they’ve been in the same _room_ with someone who had a clue about responsible journalism. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/23 "2006-07-06T22:47:14Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] You know your country’s leadership is nuts if: as a stabilizing influence, you depend on a country that runs over protesting college students with tanks. [/QUOTE] Yes, because it’s well-known that the _proper_ way of dealing with protesting college students is simply to [shoot them](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings). Easier cleanup, too; no messy blood on the tracks. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/24 "2006-07-06T23:01:40Z")
[QUOTE=Antonius Block] Yes, because it’s well-known that the _proper_ way of dealing with protesting college students is simply to [shoot them](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings). Easier cleanup, too; no messy blood on the tracks. [/QUOTE] This was meant as a light-hearted retort to my equally light-hearted jibe, correct? I know it wasn’t meant as an earnest attempt to suggest an equivalency, right? Because [there simply isn’t one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_Protests_of_1989). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/25 "2006-07-07T14:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I think America’s about ready for a reverse Orson Welles - aliens will arrive and destroy the nation under full news coverage and everbody’ll figure it’s just another overhyped media stunt and ignore the reports. [/QUOTE] Now _that_ is a movie I would pay to see! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/26 "2006-07-07T15:25:16Z")
Can someone help me out here? Why can’t a sovereign country (despite the fact that its leader is insane) develop and test military technology? Given the specious reasoning for the US invasion of Iraq, does North Korea have cause to be concerned about a “pre-emptive” invasion? Given the number of treaties the US has broken in its 230 year existence, isn’t it hypocritical when we cry foul when another nation breaks a treaty? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/27 "2006-07-07T16:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] The problem with dealing with North Korea is that their leadership is foaming at the mouth insane. They are not rational. With their current leadership, war is always about to break out. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure I buy this. I’d replace “foaming at the mouth insane” with “seriously fucking attention starved”. Anyway, adding to the fun, Taiwan just announced they’ll be doing a missile test. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/28 "2006-07-07T19:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=World Eater] Anyway, adding to the fun, Taiwan just announced they’ll be doing a missile test. [/QUOTE] [Paging Tom Lehrer!](http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/index.htm) > [@](#): > > First we got the bomb and that was good, > 'Cause we love peace and motherhood. > Then Russia got the bomb, but that’s O.K., > 'Cause the balance of power’s maintained that way! > Who’s next? > > France got the bomb, but don’t you grieve, > 'Cause they’re on our side (I believe). > China got the bomb, but have no fears; > They can’t wipe us out for at least five years! > Who’s next? > > Then Indonesia claimed that they > Were gonna get one any day. > South Africa wants two, that’s right: > One for the black and one for the white! > Who’s next? > > Egypt’s gonna get one, too, > Just to use on you know who. > So Israel’s getting tense, > Wants one in self defense. > “The Lord’s our shepherd,” says the psalm, > But just in case, we better get a bomb! > Who’s next? > > ```auto > > We will all go together when we go. > All suffused with an incandescent glow. > No one will have the endurance > To collect on his insurance, > Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go. > > Oh we will all fry together when we fry. > We'll be French fried potatoes by and by. > There will be no more misery > When the world is our rotisserie, > Yes, we will all fry together when we fry. > > ***** > > Oh, we will all burn together when we burn. > There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn. > When it's time for the fallout > And Saint Peter calls us all out, > We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn. > > You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas. > Go directly, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollahs. > > And we will all go together when we go. > Every Hottentot and every Eskimo. > When the air becomes uranious, > We will all go simultaneous. > Yes, we all will go together > When we all go together, > Yes we all will go together when we go. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/29 "2006-07-08T00:06:22Z")
This is one of the reasons I don’t watch TV news anymore at all. I was twelve or so when I realized that local news was useless. I am still amazed anyone watches that garbage. In late highschool I gave up on network news and relied only on CNN. The crapfest of celebrity watching and hyberbole were just too much. Finally in grad school I gave up on cable news. I think it was after an average day in one of the Michael Jackson trials where nothing important happened yet while flipping between channels that is all anyone was covering. I now rely on NPR during morining and evening commute supplemented with the Pit and Great Debates to alert me to other critical news. I read online news articles to find out more about anything I am interested in. I just do not see the point in wasting my time on any television news anymore. I have heard PBS has a couple good shows though, so guess I should check them out. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/30 "2006-07-08T00:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] The problem with dealing with North Korea is that their leadership is foaming at the mouth insane. They are not rational. With their current leadership, war is always about to break out. [/QUOTE] That just sounds like more scare-mongering to me. Everything North Korea is doing can be seen as having a perfectly logical motive. It may be a motive that we don’t like, but that doesn’t make it “insane.” Start from the premise that the country is starving. What does North Korea have to gain by testing missiles? 1. They scare the rest of the world to the bargaining table, and negotiate goodies out of them (food aid, etc.). 2. Barring that, they can sell weapons technology to get the money they need to buy food. A successful missile launch would be good advertising for their product. 3. Bush has called North Korea part of the “Axis of Evil”. This makes North Korea fearful of being bombed or invaded, so they seek a nuclear deterrent. I see nothing “insane” about their course of action, if their motives are to stay in power and feed their people. And I see absolutely no reason to believe North Korea would launch an actual attack against the US or South Korea or Japan. Why would they? What would they gain by it? Such an attack would ensure their utter destruction. I’m pretty sure they don’t want that. (Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that Republicans will be using North Korea to try to scare up votes in the Fall?) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/31 "2006-07-08T00:41:34Z")
Back to the OP. I also am sickened by media scaremongering. It has really saddened me over the past few years to watch once-proud CNN lower itself to tabloid screaming. Ted Turner must be rolling over in his…uh…money. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/32 "2006-07-08T00:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I see nothing “insane” about their course of action, if their motives are to stay in power and feed their people. And I see absolutely no reason to believe North Korea would launch an actual attack against the US or South Korea or Japan. Why would they? What would they gain by it? Such an attack would ensure their utter destruction. I’m pretty sure they don’t want that. (Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that Republicans will be using North Korea to try to scare up votes in the Fall?) [/QUOTE] Because it’s probably true? I agree with you, btw, that NK actions are as logical as US actions in trying to prohibit, say, Iranian access to nuclear weapons. Indeed, I’d say that a significant part of NK’s current pursuit of nuclear technology was the fear of US invasion that the whole “axis of evil” thing started. And while Kim Jong Il may be demonstrably batshit crazy, he’s surrounded by a junta of generals and Communist party officials who are, IMO, smart enough not to want war with the US. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355/33 "2006-07-08T03:06:50Z")
I have to agree. Dismissing North Koprea as just insane is not productive. Hell the whole “They are insane” argument is useless. Because you don’t understand their actions doesn’t mean that there isn’t a logic behind it. Insanity is the total absence of any form of sense or reason. As pointed out NK is giving the west a hoof to the nuts to get them to negotiate. It worked to an extent in that now governments are asking what to do with them. That will lead to how do we stop them, to what do they want. It’s notsubtle diplomacy or a particularly civilized way of dealing with other nations, but they are desperate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-hell-did-ww-iii-start/363355.md?page=1)