# When the light turns green, GO!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079 "2004-09-20T02:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/21 "2004-09-20T15:49:30Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > An addendum: when you are behind somebody at a red light, and the light turns green, and the person in front of you goes…GO! Um…no. No, I will not. I will wait until (a) I am certain that traffic in front of me has moved forward enough to allow me to leave the intersection, and/or (b) the car in front of me has gained the two-second head start which constitutes safe following distance. I’m not going to compromise my safety just to shave oh-so-precious seconds from your schedule. Learn to live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/22 "2004-09-20T18:36:37Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Um…no. No, I will not. I will wait until (a) I am certain that traffic in front of me has moved forward enough to allow me to leave the intersection, and/or (b) the car in front of me has gained the two-second head start which constitutes safe following distance. I’m not going to compromise my safety just to shave oh-so-precious seconds from your schedule. Learn to live with it. Compromise your safety? At a standard speed of acceleration from a dead stop? Hardly. I’m not advising you to floor in an inch’s space. If done in the manner I’m talking about, you can stop quite literally on the width of a dime should the need arise. I’m not concerned about two seconds. That’s why I don’t honk my horn at people who do this. But those two seconds you mention are an example of the “single instance habit” (a term I borrow from Edward MacNeal, a respected traffic analyst and semanticist), which ignores the cumulative effect of minor happenstances by dismissing a single example of said happenstance as irrelevant. Sure, the two seconds you delay me personally don’t matter much in the long run. But let’s say that everyone follows your advice, which I’m assuming you believe they should. Suppose there are twenty cars waiting at a light. Two seconds per car \* twenty cars = forty seconds of stopped traffic where the potential for movement exists. Still not relevant, you say? Well, how about a situation such as exists on the Tanglewood stretch of highway 419, where there are six traffic lights in immediate succession. Traffic is quite heavy in this area, and twenty cars per light is no exaggeration. Forty seconds delay \* six lights = 240 seconds, or _four minutes_, of unnecessary delay per light cycle. In a one-mile stretch of road. Hmm. No wonder traffic tends to back up so badly around that area. And those figures assume a standard delay time of only two seconds per car. I would say that the average is somewhere closer to four. Eight extra minutes to go a mile in a 35 mph zone? No, thank you. In other words, yeah, there are other people in the world than me. But there are other people than you, too. I don’t ask you to hurry it up in order to save myself two seconds. I ask you to hurry it up in order to save four to eight minutes per light cycle, and to help keep traffic moving steadily. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/23 "2004-09-20T18:51:17Z")
Oh, sorry to double-post, but because I know somebody’s going to call me on this: yes, I’m aware that “four minutes of _unnecessary_ delay” assumes a zero-second window between cars accelerating. I don’t propose that that’s possible. My meaning is that we should attempt to optimize that time, to get it as close to zero as is humanly possible. Human reflexes are capable of responds times of two tenths of a second. Therefore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask drivers (who are supposed to be paying attention, are they not?) to respond in the space of a second. Furthermore, as stated in my first post to this thread, I advise returning to a two-second following distance immediately after passing the intersection. I wanted to point that out again, lest anyone think I’m advocating tailgating. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/24 "2004-09-20T18:59:01Z")
At least not immediately, and not without edging forward and looking both directions a bit. We called it “Doing a Dallas” when I lived in Texas, and it goes like this: Some buttnugget is doing 55-60 mph in a 30-40 mph zone. It may be a young punk in his 2 Fast/2Furious wannabe hot rod. It could be a crazed soccer mom trying desperately to get her little angels from soccer practice to swimming practice to dance lessons to karate class. It could be a lawyer in his Benz with his cell phone jammed in one ear and a legal brief propped on his steering wheel as he rushes to his golf game. It could be a Mexican landscaper hauling ass from one lawn appointment to the next. It most likely a Dallas Cowboy racing to his dealer 'cause he’s down to his last two hits of cocaine, which he has lined up on the dashboard of his H2 and is attempting to inhale. In any case, the buttnugget see the traffic light 1/2 to 1/4 mile ahead turn yellow. Most sane and reasonable people see this yellow light, let off the gas, and begin decelerating preparatory to stopping at the soon-to-be-red light. But not out buttnugget! _He_ puts the pedal to the metal, trying to achieve something approaching an appreciable fraction of escape velocity. When he’s about 100 feet from the intersection, the light turns red. Of course by now, at his velocity, 100 feet is a blink of an eye. Hopefully, there are no “dips” in the road near the intersection, lest Our Hero go flying thought the intersection like the General Lee of Dukes of Hazard fame. The people who now have the green light and simply assume that the cross traffic will stop at the red light (foolish people!) let off the brake and proceed into the intersection… …and wake up at the pearly gates wondering, “_What the fuck_ just happened?” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/25 "2004-09-20T19:26:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But given how common red-light-running seems to have become, I wouldn’t expect **any** intelligent driver just to zip right ahead as soon as the light goes green without first taking a damn good look left and right . I do that, most certainly. I was talking about the terminally oblivious. Look, defensive people, if you’re not sitting there cutting your toenails, or if you’re not the one unable to go because you just can’t wait to see how _War and Peace_ turns out, or because your world has shrunk to your eyebrow, a pencil, and your rearview mirror, you know, this thread probably isn’t about you. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/26 "2004-09-20T19:47:16Z")
I’m new to a manual transmission (as is outlined [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5276265#post5276265) ) and therefore I am very slow at taking off from any full stop. The first person that honks at me will get the extended middle finger from Ardred, I guarantee. So, yes, sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. But if I’m fiddling with the radio (as I am wont to do) a short honk is all that’s needed to get my attention. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/27 "2004-09-20T19:49:58Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > But let’s say that everyone follows your advice, which I’m assuming you believe they should. I’m too much of a realist to think that anything I say will have any effect on anyone else’s driving habits. > [@](#): > > Two seconds per car \* twenty cars = forty seconds of stopped traffic where the potential for movement exists. Forty seconds, _if_ you’re the one at the very end of that line of twenty cars. Given six lights in a row, that’s four minutes _if_ you’re the one at the very end of a line of twenty cars _at every single light_. In other words, you’re describing a worst-case scenario…and at a very specific location, to boot. In other words, I’m not terribly concerned that drivers on especially busy roads who can’t pick alternate routes, can’t carpool, can’t take public transit, and can’t travel at times of lighter traffic may, on occasion, get delayed by eight minutes. I’m still not going to hurry for your benefit if that involves driving in a manner I feel is unsafe. > [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Human reflexes are capable of responds times of two tenths of a second. Therefore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask drivers (who are supposed to be paying attention, are they not?) to respond in the space of a second. Ah, but paying attention to what? If I’m _only_ paying attention to the brake lights of the car in front of me, to achieve this minimum distance of which you speak, then I’m not being a responsible driver because I’m not paying attention to: pedestrians in the intersection, dimwits like the ones **ExTank** describes, traffic in the oncoming lane which might veer into my lane due to accidents or stupidity, traffic behind me which may be following too closely, bicyclists who may be trying to ride up between lanes of traffic, and who knows what else. Leaving two seconds between me and the car in front of me is what allows me to divide my attention between all of the things that impose upon it when I’m driving. And there’s _more_ of that stuff, not less, when I’m going through an intersection because of the additional direction of traffic and the increased likelihood of pedestrians. An intersection is precisely when I _shouldn’t_ be following the car in front of me too closely. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/28 "2004-09-20T20:30:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **villa:** \*I don’t know, I tend to find failure to stop at red lights a more worrying trait amongst the drivers here. \* > > As **Voyager** noticed, the two phenomena are probably related. That is, sane drivers who stop when they come to a red light tend to be more cautious about going when the light turns green, because they need to check for non-sane drivers who come barrelling through from the other direction without noticing that **their** light is now—hey! surprise!—red. I agree. I just drive pretty much the same streets as the OP, and have noticed the one more than the other. Including failure to stop at stop signs, which came close to ending my ability to web surf not too many moons ago. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/29 "2004-09-21T01:37:02Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Um…no. No, I will not. I will wait until (a) I am certain that traffic in front of me has moved forward enough to allow me to leave the intersection, and/or (b) the car in front of me has gained the two-second head start which constitutes safe following distance. I’m not going to compromise my safety just to shave oh-so-precious seconds from your schedule. Learn to live with it. Stopping distance depends on speed. There is no reason you can’t start quicker and then back off a bit once you’ve cleared the intersection and are closer to full speed. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/30 "2004-09-21T01:48:20Z")
Ugh, this is a huge complaint I have about Champaign-Urbana…my current location. People here simply DON’T move at green lights. I’m not talking a manual transmission delay…I have seen people plumb take their sweet ass time about turning green on left. Even my dad and my sister commented on it when they visited. Now, granted, there is no reason to speed in two towns (and a satellite village!) the size of a postage stamp covered with cops (and I don’t…I mean, all I have to do is give myself a ten minute cushion to get from location to location). But it irritates the hell out of me when people don’t take the lefts on green on major intersections where one traffic light holds green substantially longer than the other. _grumble grumble grumble_ ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/31 "2004-09-21T03:49:07Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > Forty seconds, _if_ you’re the one at the very end of that line of twenty cars. Given six lights in a row, that’s four minutes _if_ you’re the one at the very end of a line of twenty cars _at every single light_. In other words, you’re describing a worst-case scenario…and at a very specific location, to boot. “Single instance habit” again. It’s a worst-case scenario if it happens _once_, to _me_. But if that line exists, somebody’s at the end of it, and the person in front of him isn’t much better off. This scenario also exists multiple times per day, which you’ll note I did not factor into my above figures. Also, yes, the location provided was very specific, because it was provided as a specific example. I somehow doubt Roanoke, Virginia is the only place in the world where this situation exists (and it exists in more than one place here). We ain’t that big. > [@](#): > > In other words, I’m not terribly concerned that drivers on especially busy roads who can’t pick alternate routes, can’t carpool, can’t take public transit, and can’t travel at times of lighter traffic may, on occasion, get delayed by eight minutes. I’m still not going to hurry for your benefit if that involves driving in a manner I feel is unsafe. Alternate routes don’t always exist, and buses and carpools would be just as delayed in this situation as an individual in his/her own car, none of which has anything to do with the point at hand. Holding up traffic is holding up traffic, regardless of to whom you’re doing it. As far as driving in a manner you feel is unsafe, I wouldn’t think of asking you to do so. But nothing about the manner in which I suggest you proceed is unsafe in any way. If you feel otherwise, please explain; perhaps there is some miscommunication. > [@](#): > > Ah, but paying attention to what? If I’m _only_ paying attention to the brake lights of the car in front of me, to achieve this minimum distance of which you speak, then I’m not being a responsible driver because I’m not paying attention to: pedestrians in the intersection, dimwits like the ones **ExTank** describes, traffic in the oncoming lane which might veer into my lane due to accidents or stupidity, traffic behind me which may be following too closely, bicyclists who may be trying to ride up between lanes of traffic, and who knows what else. Leaving two seconds between me and the car in front of me is what allows me to divide my attention between all of the things that impose upon it when I’m driving. And there’s _more_ of that stuff, not less, when I’m going through an intersection because of the additional direction of traffic and the increased likelihood of pedestrians. An intersection is precisely when I _shouldn’t_ be following the car in front of me too closely. Well, in this particular situation, you’ll be moving forward. The brake lights of the car ahead of you are in this direction, as will be anything you need to worry about running into from this point on. If your eyes are focused in the general direction of “ahead”, scanning various points through the windshield to ensure a clear path, surely it doesn’t take you a full two seconds to notice that the brake lights of the car ahead happen to have gone off. Besides, you should’ve had ample warning that that was going to happen based on the facts that a) the light turned green, b) cars had started proceeding through the intersection, c) the car two spots ahead of you had started moving. If you’ve truly been paying attention to everything you should, you’ll be sure that the way is clear a few seconds before the opportunity to go even arises. Also, please keep in mind (since I don’t think I made it clear) that I don’t think two seconds is a horrendously long response time. If that was the average delay between cars, things would likely proceed much more smoothly than they do now. My previous argument – the one featuring the calculations – was intended toward those who would argue that four seconds was as good as two, since two seconds here or there didn’t make much difference. I had initially interpreted that to be what you were saying. If you do indeed make a conscious effort to take exactly two seconds to get moving, then good on you. My point, however, still stands. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/32 "2004-09-21T04:57:41Z")
Actually, I think a lot of this probably happens in the first place because people are so often lost around here. We have a theory that all the streets in Nashville were designed by evil dwarves who then retreated into caves around the river, only emerging to hold secret meetings in the mysterious American Legion hall by the railroad tracks (the one that NOBODY has EVER seen a living being go into, or out of.) But I don’t think that makes it any better. When I’m lost, I pull over to the side of the road, and we all need to do the same ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/33 "2004-09-21T17:16:38Z")
> [@Pyrrhonist](#): > > I’m willing to bet, on more than a few occasions, one driver was absolutely _sure_ he’d make it through that yellow and the other driver—_whoohaa_—gunned it on the green. Which is why traffic lights have a period where all lights in all directions are red. Light A turns red BEFORE light B turns green, not at the same time. And it’s a good thing, too, because I’m always seeing people rocket through that space of red. The all-red time is long enough, however, for me to be reasonably certain that I can proceed at the green without being killed. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/34 "2004-09-21T18:34:40Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > There is no reason you can’t start quicker and then back off a bit once you’ve cleared the intersection and are closer to full speed. There is if you’re trying to get better milage out of your fuel and tires. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/35 "2004-09-21T18:41:20Z")
> [@racinchikki](#): > > Which is why traffic lights have a period where all lights in all directions are red. Light A turns red BEFORE light B turns green, not at the same time. > > And it’s a good thing, too, because I’m always seeing people rocket through that space of red. The all-red time is long enough, however, for me to be reasonably certain that I can proceed at the green without being killed. Actually, this seems to vary from city to city. There are places here in Baltimore where the green for one direction activates at exactly the same time as the red for the other direction. I noticed it when i arrived in the US, because in Australia there’s _always_ a one second space where it is red in all directions. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/36 "2004-09-21T19:12:57Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > We have a theory that all the streets in Nashville were designed by evil dwarves who then retreated into caves around the river, only emerging to hold secret meetings in the mysterious American Legion hall by the railroad tracks (the one that NOBODY has EVER seen a living being go into, or out of.) You’ve never been invited there? But surely… Oooops. Maybe I have said too much already. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/37 "2004-09-21T19:29:00Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Try going through red lights and see how healthy you stay. Apparently, very. Here in Houston, you can absolutely count on anywhere from 3-7 cars running a red light. And I ain’t talking about hopping through on the tail end of the yellow; the first guy does that. Everyone else goes through on a solid red light. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/38 "2004-09-21T20:02:24Z")
Another slow driver chiming in. I would sit and wait through a whole red light rather than blow the horn at the person in front of me. I’m never in such a hurry that I let get to me. Or maybe it’s “not having a life” means I’ve nowhere to be in a hurry. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/39 "2004-09-22T16:26:19Z")
I’ll toot my horn at someone who doesn’t go on a green, but only if they’ve been sitting there for 10 seconds or longer. Mostly because I’ve had assholes with an inferiority complex get their undies in a wad when I’ve tooted (I say “toot” because I only use very short bursts for this kind of situation) and purposely sit there, waiting until the light turns yellow, forcing me to wait through another cycle. I seriously don’t understand some people, it’s not like I was being a jerk, I was just letting them know the light turned green like, 10 seconds ago. Honestly, if I was sitting at a light in la la land, _I’d_ want someone to let me know I was sitting on a green like a dumbfuck. Anyhoo, the other day I was behind this little old lady in a white Corolla. She was the first in line at a red in a left turn lane, I was the second. Light turns green. Lady sits there. And sits. And sits. Finally I toot the horn. Lady sits. And sits. I wonder if lady is dead. I toot my horn again. Twice. Lady starts to go. And then stops. And sits. And sits. We’ve got a green arrow by the way, so it’s not like she needs to wait for traffic to clear. I’m on the verge of a nervous breakdown at this point. Social conditioning has taught me to respect my elders, but damn. This is freaking ridiculous. I toot my horn AGAIN. A bit longer this time. Lady starts to go, hesitates, I honk LOUD AND LONG. Lady finally goes. It’s like I had to _push her with my horn through the light._ The fuck? Then I was travelling down the freeway the other day. In no hurry really, I was just enjoying a Sunday afternoon drive. I notice a little white Corolla going about 40 mph. On a freeway with hardly any cars on it. I pass the car. It’s the _same damn little old lady_. Someone needs to take that woman’s license away before she kills someone. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079/40 "2004-09-22T18:15:24Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Another slow driver chiming in. I would sit and wait through a whole red light rather than blow the horn at the person in front of me. I’m never in such a hurry that I let get to me. Or maybe it’s “not having a life” means I’ve nowhere to be in a hurry. 😉 Sigh. That should say **green** light. Of course I wouldn’t blow the horn during a red light. I need to stop posting whilst sober. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-the-light-turns-green-go/265079.md?page=1)