# When things don't work. At all **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159 "2021-06-13T04:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/1 "2021-06-13T04:10:48Z")
My task for today was to install a new toilet in the powder room we just added. I had already installed the new flange, so it should have been a simple matter of setting the toilet on the flange seal and bolting it in place. I had a friend to help me, because it’s a tight space, and I didn’t want to run the risk of to toilet slipping and breaking against the tile floor. Now, for those out there who don’t have any plumbing experience, toilets are pretty standardized. The flange bolt spacing is 5 1/2". On most toilets, the bolts stick up through the toilet base, and are tightened down with a washer and nut, and then capped off with a decorative plastic cap. This toilet used a different system - there were L-shaped brackets that went onto the flange bolts, and then screws were supposed to be screwed into the brackets from the side of the toilet base (toilet [here](https://www.wayfair.com/home-improvement/pdp/deervalley-yodar-dual-flush-elongated-one-piece-toilet-seat-included-drll1025.html)). That’s a clever mounting system, and it makes the toilet look very sleek, but - it doesn’t work. The openings in the base were simply too narrow to pass the flange bolt with the nut attached. I even cut the nuts with my dremel, and they were still too big to allow the toilet to seat. After much cursing and seating and removing the toilet (I was really glad I had help), I finally gave up, removed the L-brackets, and dropped the toilet onto the naked bolts (which just barely fit). I then put on a fender washer, and nut, and tightened it down. I was lucky that I could just barely get my hand inside the base from the back. I wonder what a professional plumber would have done? Maybe they all know about this problem, and just go straight to my solution, or just caulk the damn thing down, or use one bolt. I honestly don’t know how the manufacturer could have made such a fundamental design error. All it would have taken was to widen the hole for the L-bracket by 1/2" and it would have worked fine. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/2 "2021-06-13T05:43:28Z")
sounds like this was a manufacturing error maybe? well everyone I know would of went to lowes etc …seen if they could find the brackets separately … anf if not taken it back … ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/3 "2021-06-13T07:14:30Z")
It’s not clear to me what the issue is. I watched this installation video: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Q55-DFuQv5U/hqdefault.jpg "DeerValley DV-1F52813 Installation Video") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55-DFuQv5U) You can see the L-brackets and nuts at 0:30. The bolts don’t stick up very far, and the brackets are largely bent over the bolts anyhow. But really it doesn’t seem like the bolts are supposed to extend up into the mid compartment at all. Isn’t there something like a 1" high open space on the very bottom? Maybe your flange is too high, and extends above the floor surface–that could cause an issue, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/4 "2021-06-13T13:56:28Z")
In that video, the top of the flange is flush with the surface of the floor - which is _not_ recommended mounting. I mounted the flange on top of the finished floor, which is recommended, and gives the least risk of leaking. So, I suppose they might have assumed that the flange was flush with the floor, but it still seems like a bad design - all it would have taken was to make the L-bracket holes a bit bigger. Oh, well - it’s down now. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/5 "2021-06-14T03:38:41Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I wonder what a professional plumber would have done? Bodged it worse, and charged you double. You done good. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/6 "2021-06-14T03:39:38Z")
Fixed is Fixed. Sometimes Pretty don’t count for Shit! ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/7 "2021-06-14T03:51:30Z")
ISWYDT And, yes that’s all I wanted to post, you stupid discourse robot! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/8 "2021-06-14T03:51:30Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > So, I suppose they might have assumed that the flange was flush with the floor, but it still seems like a bad design Yeah, that is curious. In fact their video shows the flange at least 1/8" _below_ the finished floor. Still, I’m surprised there wasn’t more room in the bottom compartment. Presumably your flange still isn’t more than ~1/4" above the floor surface? The bottom should be flush, and it shouldn’t be too thick. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/9 "2021-06-14T03:53:13Z")
It’s a standard ABS 4" flange. Maybe a hair thicker that 1/4". ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/10 "2021-06-14T03:55:23Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > ISWYDT I Smell What You Dropped There? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/11 "2021-06-14T14:18:25Z")
If you’ve dropped the toilet into place properly you shouldn’t be smelling anything. Seems somebody upthread has goofed. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/12 "2021-06-14T15:17:02Z")
Of the kajillions of toilets I’ve cleaned in my life, I never dreamed a design like this was possible! That blasted “S” curve is a collector of all nasty bathroom things, and it often takes a contortionist to actually clean all those nooks and crannies. This is one. Beautiful. Toilet. All of your misery with the install was Definitely Worth It. I desperately need a toilet like that! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/13 "2021-06-14T15:43:55Z")
That’s why my wife bought it - she said it makes keeping it clean much easier. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-things-dont-work-at-all/944159/14 "2021-06-14T16:23:05Z")
Those are hardly new inventions. The up-scale manufacturers have been selling toilets without an exposed S-bend since the late 1960s. The contractor-grade cheapies from American Standard and the like are another matter.