# When to fly the flag at half mast **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841 "2013-12-08T18:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/1 "2013-12-08T18:46:46Z")
I saw where a South Carolina sheriff refused to lower the flag in honor of Mandella. He stated that it should be reserved for American citisens. Do we have a protocal for this. I have always felt it was just a way of showing respect for anyone we considered to be hero based on our countries core values. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/2 "2013-12-08T19:29:07Z")
[US Flag Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/chapter-1). There is no penalty for failure to comply as it is a First Amendment issue as well. [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code#The_flag_in_mourning): > [@](#): > > The flag is to be flown at half-staff in mourning for the death of designated, principal government leaders. The sheriff is within his legal rights to do nothing. He’s also expresses his own douchebagness as an alleged human being. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/3 "2013-12-08T19:47:36Z")
For starters, you shouldn’t attempt to fly it at “half-mast” at all unless you’re onboard a naval vessel. Flying it at half-_staff_, however, is perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/4 "2013-12-09T02:35:55Z")
Other than for holidays like Memorial Day when it is always half staff, it is ordered that way by the president or governor. But those orders have no power except on federal or state property. There are a few wwbsites like the following that show the status at any particular time. > **[dailyflagstatus.com](http://www.dailyflagstatus.com)** > > US Flag,Flag Pole,American Flag,American Flag on a Pole,American Flag at Half Mast,Waving the Flag ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/5 "2013-12-09T02:52:04Z")
Yay, my home county. Some of my high school friends were bragging about this earlier today on social media :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/6 "2013-12-09T03:47:36Z")
I’m curious; why were they bragging? (I was thinking about this earlier; Nelson Mandela was just about the most universally admired national leader of recent years. I mean, who hated or disliked him, aside from perhaps his ex-wife?) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/7 "2013-12-09T03:52:04Z")
Since sheriffs in South Carolina are independently elected, it’s probably up to the sheriff to determine when flags on his department’s property are flown at half mast. Even if it’s not, there are probably no actual teeth in whatever rules the state/county/whatever uses for flags on public property. > [@Smapti](#): > > For starters, you shouldn’t attempt to fly it at “half-mast” at all unless you’re onboard a naval vessel. > > Flying it at half-_staff_, however, is perfectly acceptable. Half-mast and half-staff are actually synonyms, so you can’t do one without doing the other. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/8 "2013-12-09T04:34:46Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Other than for holidays like Memorial Day when it is always half staff… Actually it is supposed to be flown at half staff until noon. Technically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/9 "2013-12-09T05:37:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m curious; why were they bragging? > > (I was thinking about this earlier; Nelson Mandela was just about the most universally admired national leader of recent years. I mean, who hated or disliked him, aside from perhaps his ex-wife?) He was a communist and a terrorist. Haven’t you heard? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/10 "2013-12-09T09:08:32Z")
So wait, what I’m getting out of this is that sherriffs _aren’t_ State employees? But they have the full force of the Law? I always thought they worked for the county, which is a State sub-government? Isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/11 "2013-12-09T09:32:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So wait, what I’m getting out of this is that sherriffs _aren’t_ State employees? But they have the full force of the Law? I always thought they worked for the county, which is a State sub-government? Isn’t it? He’s a State official, but not a Federal employee, so he isn’t directly bound by Obama’s declaration. That said, I always figured States had laws instructing their institutions to follow federal decrees regarding the flying of the US flag. I work at a public university, and they seem to follow the Feds lead regarding flying the flag at half-mast, as well as doing it a few additional times every year for local tragedies by order of the Governor. The guys statement was certainly phrased to make it sound like he was going against some sort of formal order to fly the flag that he would’ve followed normally, though I guess he might just be a loudmouth trying to get in the papers by loudly declaring he wasn’t required to do anyways. ---
**Author:** ![David\_H\_Singanas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@David\_H\_Singanas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_H_Singanas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/12 "2013-12-09T09:52:29Z")
The flag at my branch post office has been at half mast for Mandela, I presume. As for county sherriffs dictating when and where flags can be flown at half mast, I know that the FBI will pay them a visit if they violate someone’s civil rights. This happened at Driscoll, Texas recently. The former sherriff had a habit of confiscating (impounding) personal motorcars for unpaid traffic violations. This apparently is a violation of Federal law. Cheers, Singanas 12-9-13 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/13 "2013-12-09T12:11:19Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > As for county sherriffs dictating when and where flags can be flown at half mast, I know that the FBI will pay them a visit if they violate someone’s civil rights. There’s absolutely no chance that the FBI will visit the county sheriff over this. No one’s rights are being violated. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/14 "2013-12-09T12:20:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > For starters, you shouldn’t attempt to fly it at “half-mast” at all unless you’re onboard a naval vessel. > > Flying it at half-_staff_, however, is perfectly acceptable. Those of us who spent 18 years as a Navy brat, or are Canadian, or both, will continue to use half-mast, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/15 "2013-12-09T12:45:56Z")
I saw a flag at half-mast on Saturday in front of a car dealership and initially thought it was for Paul Walker. It was only when I saw a bunch of different locations had it half-mast that I realized it must be for Mandela. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/16 "2013-12-09T12:58:07Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Those of us who spent 18 years as a Navy brat, or are Canadian, or both, will continue to use half-mast, thank you. Canoes have masts? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/17 "2013-12-09T13:14:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Nelson Mandela was just about the most universally admired national leader of recent years. I mean, who hated or disliked him, aside from perhaps his ex-wife? Dick Cheney. [Dick Cheney Didn’t Regret His Vote Against Freeing Nelson Mandela, Maintained He Was A ‘Terrorist’](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/dick-cheney-nelson-mandela-terrorist_n_4394071.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/18 "2013-12-09T14:06:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Dick Cheney. > > [Dick Cheney Didn’t Regret His Vote Against Freeing Nelson Mandela, Maintained He Was A ‘Terrorist’](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/dick-cheney-nelson-mandela-terrorist_n_4394071.html) Can we just go ahead and rename him “Darth Cheney”? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/19 "2013-12-09T14:44:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So wait, what I’m getting out of this is that sherriffs _aren’t_ State employees? But they have the full force of the Law? I always thought they worked for the county, which is a State sub-government? Isn’t it? It doesn’t work that way. County governments are separate entities from the state. They generally have no power to create statutes but can pass county ordinances. The county government has control over county property, the state does not. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841/20 "2013-12-09T16:50:13Z")
With regard to the OP, here is what the [Flag Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7) says. I do not believe it is legally binding but certainly establishes protocol. > [@](#): > > In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. It clearly does not require honorees to be U.S. citizens. The sheriff is being obstinate and making up his own rules. However, he may be legally entitled to do so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-to-fly-the-flag-at-half-mast/675841.md?page=2)