# When was the last time a Presidency as scandal free as Obama's. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268 "2016-05-08T04:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/1 "2016-05-08T04:02:52Z")
In the light of how Benghazi has been pursued, surely if there were any worms in Obama’s apple, they would have been gleefully exposed. Is his administration scandal free? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/2 "2016-05-08T04:11:39Z")
Don’t forget Umbrellagate and Tansuitgate. And of course, Michelle was caught up in Tonedbarearmsgate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/3 "2016-05-08T04:53:33Z")
Fistbumpgate shall ever haunt his legacy. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/4 "2016-05-08T05:00:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Fistbumpgate shall ever haunt his legacy. That wasn’t during his administration. He was still running for office. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/5 "2016-05-08T05:02:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That wasn’t during his administration. He was still running for office. > > 😃 Well Phoneghazi started during the Reagan administration so I don’t think that should be a disqualification. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/6 "2016-05-08T05:06:31Z")
According to [this site](http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2013/08/01/obama-dozen-scandals-counting/), the Obama Administration has two dozen scandals (“and counting”, as of 2013). However, not a one of these is directly linked to the administration itself or has any credibility, and several, like the infamous “Fast and Furious” gunwalking operation, originates from the previous presidential administration. The closest to a real scandal was the load to Solyndra as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, and even that loss has been largely offset. Setting aside manufactured issues like Benghazi attack “scandal”, the Obama Administration has remained remarkably free of influence peddling that plagued the Clinton administration, extralegal or unlawful operations like Iran-Contra, and the grotesque incompetence and malfeasence of the Bush administration. However, Obama can’t be considered completely free of questionable decisions. The expansion of the use of drones for targeted extrajudicial killing, for instance, was a deliberate expansion of war by the administration which will have impacts for decades to come. On the whole, I’ve been very disappointed in the failure of Obama to live up to even ostensible commitments for reform, but any objective evaluation will demonstrate a pretty small amount of intentionally scandalous or malicious activity by this administration. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/7 "2016-05-08T06:04:14Z")
His whole presidency has been one big melanin conspiracy. It’s the Blackwater scandal. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/8 "2016-05-08T09:36:02Z")
There are plenty of scandals in the current administration. Scandals that would topple other presidents of a different party. The media won’t cover them. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/9 "2016-05-08T11:29:37Z")
By all means, please go on. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/10 "2016-05-08T11:47:48Z")
Of course! The biggest scandal is that nobody knows what any of his scandals are! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/11 "2016-05-08T11:54:09Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > There are plenty of scandals in the current administration. Scandals that would topple other presidents of a different party. The media won’t cover them. Yes, it’s well known that Fox News and all the Murdoch papers and media and talk radio everywhere have all been in the tank for Obama right from the start. Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh can’t say enough good things about him. But what an opportunity for bright young journalists to get out there, break this conspiracy of silence, and finally let The Truth™ be known! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/12 "2016-05-08T12:06:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Don’t forget Umbrellagate and Tansuitgate. > > And of course, Michelle was caught up in Tonedbarearmsgate. Is Umbrellagate the same scandal as Coffecupgate? Because if not, I’ve got another one. I remember it being reported on Fox News as the scandal that is shaking the nation and might spell the end of the Obama presidency. It occurred when Obama was walking away from the presidential helicopter and a Marine saluted him, and Obama returned the salute while holding a coffee cup. I, for one, was so shocked that I had to retire to my fainting couch. [Here](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Bush-Salute-444x570.jpg) is the scandalous photo. Wait, I mean [here](http://www.americanconservativedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ObamaSalute.jpg). Courtesy of the liberal media at American Conservative Daily News. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/13 "2016-05-08T12:24:40Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > There are plenty of scandals in the current administration. Scandals that would topple other presidents of a different party. The media won’t cover them. If the media won’t cover them, how do you know about them? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/14 "2016-05-08T12:34:09Z")
The Obama Presidency has been scandal free if we’re talking about wrongdoing connected to the President himself. There have been administration incompetence issues however, from the VA to the IRS, to Fast and Furious, to the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) website. There’s also been a minor ongoing scandal for his entire Presidency: an utter disdain for FOIA, and a pretty ruthless campaign against whistleblowers: > **[Obama administration sets new record for withholding FOIA requests](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests)** > > WASHINGTON — The Obama administration set a record again for censoring government files or outright denying access to them last year under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act, according to a new analysis of federal data by The Associated Press. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/15 "2016-05-08T12:53:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course! The biggest scandal is that nobody knows what any of his scandals are! The lack of evidence is proof. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/16 "2016-05-08T13:00:25Z")
Amen! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/17 "2016-05-08T13:05:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Obama Presidency has been scandal free if we’re talking about wrongdoing connected to the President himself. > > There have been administration incompetence issues however, from the VA to the IRS, to Fast and Furious, to the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) website. > > There’s also been a minor ongoing scandal for his entire Presidency: an utter disdain for FOIA, and a pretty ruthless campaign against whistleblowers: > > [Obama administration sets new record for withholding FOIA requests | PBS News](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-administration-sets-new-record-withholding-foia-requests/) The VA and IRS issues have been, AFAIK, issues with the entrenched permanent civil service rather than either with the President himself, as you acknowledge, or with his administration. Indeed on the IRS spending controversies, the Obama administration acted to clamp down on such exorbitance both in the IRS and the GSA. And the IRS targeting “scandal” that was so overblown in conservative media was largely an issue of institutional incompetence, and if there was any single individual held responsible more than any other, it was IRS Director Lois Lerner who was a career civil servant and had held that position long before Obama became president. And Fast and Furious originated with the Bush administration. The last point I think is correct, though I wouldn’t characterize it with terms like “utter disdain for FOIA” or “ruthless campaign”, nor would I call it a “scandal”, minor or otherwise. I think it supports the notion that, as Bill Maher is fond of saying, in many ways Obama is not even a liberal. His approaches to national security and things like targeting bin Laden and the drone program are more like what you’d expect from a hardline conservative. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/18 "2016-05-08T13:29:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The VA and IRS issues have been, AFAIK, issues with the entrenched permanent civil service rather than either with the President himself, as you acknowledge, or with his administration. The initial problem was within the bureaucracy, but it was allowed to go unchecked for much longer than necessary. Things were so bad and the chain of command so broken that VA whistleblowers went to Republicans, which they didn’t want to do. And then that didn’t even work because the administration ignored Republican Congressmen who wrote to them about the VA wait times. So eventually it took the media to get to the bottom of it. > [@](#): > > Indeed on the IRS spending controversies, the Obama administration acted to clamp down on such exorbitance both in the IRS and the GSA. And the IRS targeting “scandal” that was so overblown in conservative media was largely an issue of institutional incompetence, and if there was any single individual held responsible more than any other, it was IRS Director Lois Lerner who was a career civil servant and had held that position long before Obama became president. And Fast and Furious originated with the Bush administration. The pattern here is that the President only acted when the media reported on it. > [@](#): > > The last point I think is correct, though I wouldn’t characterize it with terms like “utter disdain for FOIA” or “ruthless campaign”, nor would I call it a “scandal”, minor or otherwise. I think it supports the notion that, as Bill Maher is fond of saying, in many ways Obama is not even a liberal. His approaches to national security and things like targeting bin Laden and the drone program are more like what you’d expect from a hardline conservative. When you’re setting records for FOIA non-compliance, it goes well beyond that. I think the real issue is that much like Ronald Reagan, Obama’s people pursue agendas that aren’t necessarily his, but which they think is helping him out. Tom Perez has been one of the major offenders, being part of dropping the Black Panther case and making a deal with Minnesota to drop a civil rights case in exchange for federal money because Perez was worried the case wouldn’t go the federal government’s way. FOIA requests from the right have been heavily centered around issues like that within the administration and the administration gives them zilch unless they get a court order, which they usually do. Eventually, if they have the resources to pursue the issue. I think the reason this isn’t a major media scandal is because it’s all in pursuit of such minor objectives. There’s no Iran-Contra here, or Watergate. So the OP is right that there have been no major scandals, but it is worth pointing out where the administration actually has been worse than previous administrations. FOIA and a rogue bureaucracy have been two examples of significant problems, and the President has shown little interest in dealing with the problem because it’s mostly benefitting him and the media only occasionally calls him on it. And the reason this should be important to his supporters is that conservatives have noticed the minor harassment and noncompliance and might decide it’s worth making this standard practice in Republican administrations. We know Donald Trump won’t be above this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/19 "2016-05-08T14:06:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The pattern here is that the President only acted when the media reported on it. I remember clearly how Reagan, Clinton(Bill) and Nixon broke the news on their respective scandals before the press found out. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268/20 "2016-05-08T14:20:16Z")
I didn’t say he had to break the news, just that the process should work. There should be direct lines of communication from the lowest rungs of the bureaucracy all the way to the top. That’s how it works in the corporate world and in the military. Only in the government is it fairly routine to actually keep the President in the dark. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-a-presidency-as-scandal-free-as-obamas/754268.md?page=2)