# When was the last time that an aircraft 'Shot' another one down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794 "2015-02-16T05:07:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/1 "2015-02-16T05:07:06Z")
I mean with actual bullets, in a line of sight engagement, dogfight style. I think there may have been some A-10’s against helicopters in Desert Storm. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/2 "2015-02-16T05:11:40Z")
I know Pakistan Airforce F16 shot down at least one Soviet plane with cannon back in the late 1980’s. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_doped](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@straight\_doped](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_doped)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/3 "2015-02-16T05:13:25Z")
Malaysian Boeing MH-17 was shot down on July 17, 2014 by another aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/4 "2015-02-16T05:48:37Z")
> [@straight\_doped](#): > > Malaysian Boeing MH-17 was shot down on July 17, 2014 by another aircraft. Uh, has that been established? Isn’t at least one side claiming it was a surface-to-air missile? In any case, I don’t think shooting down an airliner would fit the OP’s criteria for “dogfight style”. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/5 "2015-02-16T05:55:43Z")
> [@straight\_doped](#): > > Malaysian Boeing MH-17 was shot down on July 17, 2014 by another aircraft. All the evidence (not coming from guys named Vladmir) suggest it was shot down with a Soviet Buk surface-to-air missile. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/6 "2015-02-16T06:33:47Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I mean with actual bullets, in a line of sight engagement, dogfight style. About two weeks ago: > [@](#): > > Venezuela Confirms Shooting Down Small Civilian Plane Near Aruba > BY REUTERS 1/30/15 AT 11:21 PM > > CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela said on Friday it shot down a civilian plane after it ignored communications off its Caribbean coast near the island of Aruba, but denied any violation of international airspace. > > Authorities on Aruba, a semi-autonomous island that is part of the kingdom of the Netherlands, had said on Thursday the aircraft being pursued by Venezuelan military jets went down off its coast, with human remains and packages of drugs visible in the water. > **[Venezuela Confirms Shooting Down Small Civilian Plane Near Aruba - Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/venezuela-confirms-shooting-down-small-civilian-plane-near-aruba-303473)** > > The country denied any violation of international airspace. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/7 "2015-02-16T06:43:07Z")
Beaten by Donnerwetter but… During the war in Yugoslavia, NATO aircraft shot down a few Soviet craft. See “MiG-29 downed in dogfight”: [http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/04/kosovo.03/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9905/04/kosovo.03/index.html) Israel downed 2 Syrian jets in 2001. [http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453413.05625.html](http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453413.05625.html) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/8 "2015-02-16T08:40:55Z")
Please note the OP excludes missile kills, either from SAMs or from AAM launched from Aircraft, S/he wants kills using guns or cannon. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/9 "2015-02-16T09:14:56Z")
I don’t whether the Venezuelan fighter jet used cannons or rockets to bring down that plane, but it’s noteworthy that this wasn’t the first incident of this kind: > [@](#): > > 22 October 2013 > Venezuela shoots down two ‘hostile’ planes > > Venezuela says two light aircraft have been shot down after entering the country’s airspace over the weekend. These were the first mid-air attacks by fighter jets since a bill authorising such action against illegal planes was approved earlier this month, the Bolivarian Armed Forces said. The aircraft were allegedly smuggling drugs from Central America and refused to follow the military pilots’ orders. > **[Venezuela shoots down two 'hostile' planes](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-24618087)** > > Venezuela says two light aircraft were shot down after entering the country's airspace over the weekend, allegedly smuggling drugs. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/10 "2015-02-16T11:33:32Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > I don’t whether the Venezuelan fighter jet used cannons or rockets to bring down that plane, but it’s noteworthy that this wasn’t the first incident of this kind: > > [Venezuela shoots down two 'hostile' planes - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-24618087) Almost certainly cannon. Rockets are unguided and hitting a moving target from a moving launch platform is near impossible. Maybe a missile but that’s getting real expensive, six figures for an infrared heat seeker like an AIM-9 Sidewinder. Venezuela has some of those in their inventory. A radar guided missile would be similar in cost. A light plane could be targeted with a modern version. Older versions may not lock on to a small light plane with a small heat signature. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/11 "2015-02-17T01:21:27Z")
I does not specify dates but i did find this > [@](#): > > For western fighter on the overall, the 154 engagements resulted in at least 210 confirmed kills with two combat losses and four fratricides. Note that the 72 F-16 kills represents 47% of that number. The fourth fratricide just recently occurred between two Japanese F-15s when one downed his leader with an AIM-9L during a training mission. **There were 23 x M-61 gun kills, 2 x 30mm gun kills** , 45 x AIM-7 Sparrow kills from F-15, F-18, & F-14s, 3 x AIM-120 AMRAAM kills from the F-16 and 1 x unfortunate fratricide AIM-120 Kill by an F-15C on a Blackhawk Helicopter, and 127 x IR missile kills from all aircraft utilizing either AIM-9 Sidewinder, Magic 550, or Python missiles. There are 3 x AIM-54 Phoenix Kills recorded by the Iranian Air Fore F-14A’s during the First Gulf War. There were also three kills from air-to-ground munitions (aircraft airborne) and one maneuvering suicide along with a bailout that was credited as a kill. [http://www.f-16.net/varia\_article3.html](http://www.f-16.net/varia_article3.html) ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/12 "2015-02-17T01:56:25Z")
I’m curious why the difference between bullets and a missile is significant. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/13 "2015-02-17T02:03:40Z")
The F-4 famously did not have guns at first, the newer fighters do. I was wondering if they still justified their space and weight onboard the plane. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/14 "2015-02-17T02:18:30Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I was wondering if they still justified their space and weight onboard the plane. Important to not in an era where there’s been less air to air combat guns aren’t strictly about air. They can and do get used in a CAS role as well. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-last-time-that-an-aircraft-shot-another-one-down/712794/15 "2015-02-17T03:40:47Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I’m curious why the difference between bullets and a missile is significant. I can’t answer for the OP, but I have heard some people arguing that guns on aircraft are antiquated and a waste of precious space/weight that could be used for more fuel and/or missiles. They’re working from the assumption that no one uses guns anymore. Oops… just realized the OP answered that in the second sentence of his last post. Good guess, me!