# When was the U.S. Navy at its most powerful? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164 "2012-02-27T17:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/81 "2012-09-05T06:44:29Z")
In relative terms? The cold war US navy was facing very serious threats from recent Soviet naval developments sometime in the 80s. The USN was the strongest then, yes, but not invincible. I would still say the USN towards the end of WW2. Halsey’s 3rd fleet was stronger than most navies of entire countries. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/82 "2012-09-05T08:40:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > As a WAG, I would guess almost all that extra firepower comes from Tomahawk cruise missiles. The limiting factor on the Tomahawk has always been the cost though, not the number of available launch platforms. VLS cells have always been able to carry Tomahawks in place of Standard SAMs as needed. If the target was worth expending a million dollars to deliver a 1,000lb warhead has been the limiting factor on its combat use, not the number of launch platforms. It certainly hasn’t doubled the ability of carriers to project power onto land. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/83 "2012-09-05T12:53:08Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > …Combat power is a very nebulous term; did the lethality or effectiveness of conventional weapons more than double between 1985 and 2005? By what exact metric did combat power more than double on a per ship basis between those years?.. Networked platforms. Maybe stealth technology (improved quieting/lower RCS topsides)? Maybe widespread deployment of SM-3 Standard SAM too? Improved low frequency sonar, both passive and active. But allowing all of your platforms to talk to each other, without the other guy listening in, and thereby knowing where all of your people are, is really powerful. I don’t think the CNO was being hyperbolic at all. Edit: Also add UAVs. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/84 "2012-09-05T20:19:49Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > Unfortunately, stamping out piracy is much more than just shooting up ships and pirates… Maybe, but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Bring back the Q-ships! > **[Q-ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship)** > > Q-ships, also known as Q-boats, decoy vessels, special service ships, or mystery ships, were heavily armed merchant ships with concealed weaponry, designed to lure submarines into making surface attacks. This gave Q-ships the chance to open fire and sink them. > They were used by the British Royal Navy and the German Kaiserliche Marine during the First World War and by the Royal Navy, the Kriegsmarine, the Imperial Japanese Navy, and the United States Navy during the Second World War. > Though lega... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/85 "2012-09-06T01:53:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Maybe, but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Bring back the Q-ships! > > [Q-ship - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship) They’d be more or less useless. ☹ The dock workers at various ports key the pirates into what ships are good targets. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/86 "2012-09-06T03:03:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Otto Skorzeny. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/87 "2012-09-06T03:37:24Z")
I’m pretty sure that’s a reference to Skorzeny’s [rescue of Mussolini](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Sasso_raid)from an Alpine resort in September 1943. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/88 "2012-09-06T07:53:20Z")
The US Navy was most powerful at the end of 1990. It had 11 SSBNs carrying 1,760 W68 (40kt) warheads, 20 SSBNs carrying 3,072 W76 (100kt) warheads and 2 SSBNs carrying 384 W88 (475kt) warheads. That is 5,216 warheads with a total yield of 612 megatons. It is hard to comprehend the destruction these warheads would cause if they were unleashed. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/89 "2012-09-06T15:31:57Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s a reference to Skorzeny’s [rescue of Mussolini](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Sasso_raid)from an Alpine resort in September 1943. “Where Eagles Dare” for real. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/90 "2012-09-06T15:35:06Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > The US Navy was most powerful at the end of 1990. > > It had 11 SSBNs carrying 1,760 W68 (40kt) warheads, 20 SSBNs carrying 3,072 W76 (100kt) warheads and 2 SSBNs carrying 384 W88 (475kt) warheads. > > That is 5,216 warheads with a total yield of 612 megatons. > > It is hard to comprehend the destruction these warheads would cause if they were unleashed. That’s the argument, though. Why count those megatons if they’ll never be used? I don’t think they’ll be used even tactically (against targets at sea). There would be too much political fall out. (heh heh. Fall out. I made a funny.) ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/91 "2012-09-06T16:22:44Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > That’s the argument, though. Why count those megatons if they’ll never be used? > > I don’t think they’ll be used even tactically (against targets at sea). There would be too much political fall out. (heh heh. Fall out. I made a funny.) They were built to provide deterrence and did the job well. But they still had the potential to be used and would be used if nuclear war broke out. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/92 "2012-09-06T17:51:56Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > They were built to provide deterrence and did the job well. But they still had the potential to be used and would be used if nuclear war broke out. The Admiral made his comments in 2005. I don’t think Nuclear War is/was about to break out. The Pentagon, right now, realises that the foreseeable future conflicts are these anti-terror/pirate small scale conventional stuff. (We don’t need UAV’s to find Beijing with an ICBM.) Seem’s to me that the Admiral was trying to counter some criticism about the Navy (maybe someone asked if all the money we spend on the Navy was worth it) budget. But counting the Nukes seems to be a bit of misdirection on his part (if my assumption about the criticism is correct), especially as we’ll never use nukes in Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, or Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/93 "2012-09-06T19:52:25Z")
I guess one question that hasn’t been addressed is how you assess the Navy vs the rest of the armed forces. I mean, amphibious assault craft are great, but useless without infantry to assault with. I think a strong argument can be made that the US in post WWII was, for its time, the most powerful force for ship to ship combat. But that was also the end of the ship to ship era, as carriers put aircraft into the role of ship killers. As far as ability to command the seas, and put attack power onto land, modern capabilities using Tomahawks and carrier based fighters are pretty extreme. Pirates do pose an interesting challenge. Theoretically, we could saturate their area of operations, man freighters with defense forces, etc, and make the cost of being a pirate substantially more of a deterrent, but the real solution is a political solution affecting the region until piracy is not economically viable for them. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/94 "2012-09-06T20:49:18Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > No other force on Earth could pull off the Bin Laden raid. Pakistan could have, if they’d only known the guy was just down the road 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/95 "2012-09-07T00:35:20Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Most powerful for the time? At the end of WWII, no question in my mind. We had just finished defeating two of the worlds great powers (with help), one a great naval power, all from across the ocean. Japan had one of the most powerful navys in the world in 1941. In 1945, on the other side of the globe, we could brush aside any naval resistance with ease. Sounds like the most powerful navy too me. > > Most powerful ever? Today’s Navy. We have continued for 60 years with WWII as the benchmark, as if we might have to fight everyone on earth at any moment, with continuous technological upgrades. The rest of the world has kind of given up the race. China hasn’t, and because of their huge population they will be able to afford a more powerful navy than the US as their economy matures. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/96 "2012-09-07T00:51:54Z")
They might build the ships, but that’s a long way from building a navy to rival the USN. As [Admiral Cunningham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cunningham,_1st_Viscount_Cunningham_of_Hyndhope)said before sending his destroyers in to take the battered army off Crete: > [@](#): > > It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition I’ll be generous and say the Chinese might manage it in one century. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/97 "2012-09-07T01:16:15Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > They might build the ships, but that’s a long way from building a navy to rival the USN. > > As [Admiral Cunningham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cunningham,_1st_Viscount_Cunningham_of_Hyndhope)said before sending his destroyers in to take the battered army off Crete: > I’ll be generous and say the Chinese might manage it in one century. In 1853, Commodore Perry contacted Japan and famously, “opened them to the West.” IIRC, Japan at that point did not have a bluewater navy. 52 years later in 1905, from a much more restricted level of development than the Chinese have now, Japan had a sufficient navy [to completely annihilate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima) an Imperial Russian battle fleet. And win the Russo-Japanese War. One thing this era is known for is the increasing pace of technological advancement. I will give the Chinese 20 years, but I don’t think it would take a century, if they put their mind to it. This does assume that their opponents will be stagnant. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/98 "2012-09-07T01:44:06Z")
True, but the Russian navy could hardly be called the dominant navy of its time. A better example might be the Imperial German Navy that went from essentially a coastal defence force in 1898 to one that could pose a threat to the RN’s Grand Fleet in 1914. However, even then all the German fleet couldn’t even reach parity with one RN element, and this coincided with the Dreadnought revolution that rendered old battleships nearly obsolete in 1906, so both the German and British navies were building the battle fleets pretty much from scratch in 1906. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/99 "2012-09-07T10:41:59Z")
That parity was more about production priorities than about the inherent superiority of British naval tradition though. Their assumption of inherent naval superiority via tradition was one of the reasons they seriously risked being clobbered at Jutland, even with numerical superiority. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164/100 "2012-10-17T13:37:18Z")
Romney, Obama and the Navy of today: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/08/politics/fact-check-romney-navy/index.html?iid=article\_sidebar](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/08/politics/fact-check-romney-navy/index.html?iid=article_sidebar) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164.md?page=6)