# When wasn't this guy well-known? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** reality-or-game-show\ **Created:** [November 14, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347 "2021-11-14T23:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/81 "2021-11-15T14:38:25Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > _ **Penny Serenade** _ ? She made three films with Grant. I don’t remember which. One they solved by billing them both together, one in the bottom right, and one in the top left. And that **wasn’t** _Penny Serenade_; I know that for sure because I’ve only seen it once. It was so sad, I could never watch it again. Their other two movies are hilarious, though, and she is particularly funny in _The Awful Truth._ I’ve seen that a number of times. So, it may be _Penny Serenade._ I’m afraid to look up the opening sequence, though. Whichever of their films came first, is probably the answer. That would likely be the point at which he was much less famous than she was. She had been nominated for an Oscar in 1931. Nope-- looks like my source was slightly mistaken. Just checked out trailers, opening sequences, and 1-sheets. It looks like Dunne has top billing in all the opening sequences; however, _My Favorite Wife_ is plugged in the trailer as starring “America’s favorite comedian, Cary Grant,” and also, Irene Dunne, by the way, while the 1-sheet seems to be the place where the credit is split with the top/bottom - right/left scheme. I suppose considering the course of Dunne’s career, while she enjoyed doing comedy, she didn’t want to be _billed_ as a comedian, and be pigeon-holed, and also was sky-high at the time; Grant was still up-and-coming enough to take anything that boosted him. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/82 "2021-11-15T14:46:56Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > That’s because people back then had “style” and “class,” two things that are in deficit today. _Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis_ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/83 "2021-11-15T14:48:31Z")
According to Wiki and IMDb, _ **Penny Serenade** _ came out in 1941. So it was later in her career. _ **Penny Serenade** _ is shown fairly often between 02:00 and 04:00 on CHCH in Toronto. I first saw it on Czech TV back in 1991–92, when the authorities were trying to wean the population off of watching mostly Russian movies. They built up an impressive library of old films in English with stars like Cary Grant, Gregory Peck, Jimmy Stewart, et al. Irene Dunne was gorgeous, right up there with Ann Sheridan and Ava Gardner! The movie starts, BTW, with a close-up of a 78 RPM record spinning on a turntable. Cary Grant then goes into the music shop where Irene Dunne works, and things proceed from there. I probably have seen the other movies you mention as well; I just don’t have any immediate recollection of them. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/84 "2021-11-15T15:01:10Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The movie starts, BTW, with a close-up of a 78 RPM record spinning on a turntable. Cary Grant then goes into the music shop where Irene Dunne works, and things proceed from there. Believe me, I know; I saw it in college, and still remember every aching minute of it. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/85 "2021-11-15T15:02:46Z")
Now that I think about it, the movie actually starts with a brief preview of Grant and Dunne breaking up to go their separate ways. It then segues into the spinning record. Yep, it is a pretty sad movie. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/86 "2021-11-15T15:17:00Z")
Colonel Sanders also showed up on _I’ve Got a Secret_, circa 1964-65 (according to the comments, based on his age of 74). Again, no one seemed to recognize him. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Gk2HaAIqS3g/hqdefault.jpg "KFC's Col Sanders on "I've Got a Secret"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk2HaAIqS3g) As for it being a “classier” age, _I’ve Got a Secret_ was on in the same period as _What’s My Line_, and was very similar in format, but it wasn’t nearly as formal or stuffy. Everyone was on a first name basis. The Mr. Cerf and Miss Francis stuff was really down to John Daly being a bit of a stuffed shirt, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/87 "2021-11-15T15:24:33Z")
900 sounds like a lot but, dispersed over that huge of a distance, it is entirely understandable how some people never even saw one. Keep in mind that advertising in the old days was only a shadow of its intensity now. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/88 "2021-11-15T15:25:23Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > As for it being a “classier” age, _I’ve Got a Secret_ was on in the same period as _What’s My Line_, and was very similar in format, but it wasn’t nearly as formal or stuffy. Everyone was on a first name basis. The Mr. Cerf and Miss Francis stuff was really down to John Daly being a bit of a stuffed shirt, I suspect. Yep, Garry Moore was a lot more easygoing than John Daly, that’s for sure. My favorite period of _ **I’ve Got a Secret** _ was the one with Steve Allen as host, where they did “The Twelve Days of Christmas” with a chorus of people drawn from NYC area phone books. Each one had a surname that more or less matched the lyrics of the carol. As I remember, Bud Collyer was also a pretty classy host of _ **To Tell the Truth** _. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/89 "2021-11-15T15:41:45Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Also, at least some of the franchisees put their names on their restaurants and Kentucky Fried Chicken was subordinate. That didn’t change until until the new owners introduced more consistent branding later in the 1960s. Even as late as the 1980s, my in-laws in Cleveland still called KFC, “Kenny King’s.” When I was a kid in the 60s Kentucky Fried Chicken was sold by a regional burger chain called Gino’s (started by Hall of Fame NFL player Gino Marchetti). I remember the picture of the Colonel on the bucket of chicken (they also had a larger size they called a barrel of chicken), but we always called it Gino’s Chicken. Wasn’t until I moved away after college that I saw actual KFC stores. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/90 "2021-11-15T15:46:44Z")
Those society snobs wouldn’t be caught dead eating food for the masses. Blue collar schlubs on the panel would have gotten it at first sight. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/91 "2021-11-15T16:23:39Z")
I think where you were had some influence on degree of formality, and New York, probably the east in general, hung on longer than the west coast or the Midwest. I was a kid in NYC in the late 60s and early 70s. It was a punishable offense to call adults by their first names. Even the rare kid with a stepparent usually had some kind of nickname, or called them mom/dad or aunt/uncle as a title before their first names, never just a plain first name. Adults who had just met used titles, and people in the 20s & 30s used them with much older people. IIRC, _What’s My Line_ was broadcast from a location in NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/92 "2021-11-15T16:23:47Z")
If this eBay listing is correct, they were using the colonel’s image as early as the 50s. [https://www.ebay.com/itm/133784353537](https://www.ebay.com/itm/133784353537) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/93 "2021-11-15T16:43:12Z")
I don’t get this. As I said earlier to a similar comment, virtually nobody in New York would have ever encountered the Colonel or KFC in 1963, unless they had moved there from somewhere else or happened to catch one of those odd tv appearances. I’m guessing no more than 5% of the total population could have had a glimpse. And that especially includes the blue collar crowd, who got to travel less to the distant South or West then than today. KFC never came within hundreds of miles of NYC until 1970. What magic crystal ball would have given them his name or image? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/94 "2021-11-15T16:52:40Z")
Yeah, that’s probably the better explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/95 "2021-11-15T17:19:35Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/96 "2021-11-15T17:41:58Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > _What’s My Line_ is full of famous non-famous, and the other way around. One of my personal favorite actresses is Irene Dunne, but mostly only film buffs have heard of her-- not only did she retire in the 50s, and make the bulk of her films in the 30s, but she has the distinction of having an extraordinary number of her films remade (a sure sign of talent, BTW, because only popular films get remade), which means that nearly all of her films were unavailable from, more or less, 1950-1980; when a film was remade in the Golden Era, the studio producing the remake usually bought the rights to the original, and pulled it from distribution. The new “To Tell the Truth” occasionally slips a ringer into the show as one of the fakes - recently Paris Themmen was one of the fakes: a name and a face that you wouldn’t recognize, but he was “Mike Teevee” in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. In another memorable case, a woman who was an expert on disguise was the truth-teller in one round, and in a later round, she (in disguise) was one of the fakes. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/97 "2021-11-15T17:47:06Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The new “To Tell the Truth” occasionally slips a ringer into the show as one of the fakes IIRC (I was a pretty little kid), the old one was fond of bringing in the sibling of someone famous, who would look nothing like the famous person, and then bringing in two strangers who were dead-ringers for whoever it was. One of the panelists cottoned onto it (I don’t remember which one), and said she (I do have a vague memory that it was a woman), was voting for #_n_, because that one looked the least like [famousperson]. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/98 "2021-11-15T17:58:01Z")
The other trick for “What’s My Line” is that there’s a significant chance that if the guest is a woman, the job is lumberjack, or police officer, a weight lifter or (gasp) a mayor, while burly male guests may be dress makers or florists. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/99 "2021-11-15T18:14:19Z")
To give you an idea of how hoity-toity the _What’s My Line?_ panel was, I remember the episode where Art Carney (then on _The Honeymooners_) was the mystery guest. They were trying to narrow down what area of the entertainment business he was in. Do you sing? No. Have you appeared in the theater? No. Have you been in movies? No. Do you appear in nightclubs? No. In a somewhat despairing voice, Dorothy Kilgallen said, “Well, what else is there?” Even though she was, at that very instant, making a television show, it never occurred to her to ask if the mystery guest was known for television. There was another episode where they asked if the guest had been seen in the Broadway theater. She replied, “In the theater, but not on Broadway.” Kilgallen said, “Well, then you haven’t been in the theater, my dear.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347/100 "2021-11-15T18:23:38Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I read some article about the history of KFC a long time ago. Sanders had been a ne’er-do-well for much of his life, moving from one money-making scheme to another, never being very successful, for a long time. His hobby was gourmet cooking. At some point, he stumbled upon that combination of herbs and spices that was to become his famous secret recipe, and he decided it was something he could sell. He was a middle-aged coot when that happened. > > So he opened up a single one-off fried chicken stand. It was successful enough that he soon expanded to several more shops, and it just grew from there. As I heard it, Sanders (who, as you say, was always trying to figure out ways to make money) ran a gas station that served chicken to its customers. Because they were just stopping for gas, he had to figure out a way to get freshly fried chicken to them quickly. He developed a pressure cooker method that resulted in very fast turnaround times (something like 7 minutes). He then started selling this system (which included his herbs and spices recipe) to other places, taking a commission on their sales. That’s how Kentucky Fried Chicken got started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-wasnt-this-guy-well-known/954347.md?page=6)