# When we all died. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697 "2011-08-06T04:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/61 "2011-08-08T21:53:03Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Basically, a nuke is like a gun, in that if I were to lay a gun on a table, the gun would be harmless. The same principle applies to a nuke. I could stand right next to a nuke and touch it, and it could not hurt me unless it were either sentient or if someone armed it. So you’re saying we should all be allowed to have nukes if we pass an NRA course? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/62 "2011-08-08T22:42:44Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > So you’re saying we should all be allowed to have nukes if we pass an NRA course? Cool! Conceal and carry is gonna be a bitch, though. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/63 "2011-08-09T00:02:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I don’t know about hiding under a desk. In a one megaton explosion, every body within a couple miles will be vaporized by gamma radiation. About 10 miles away ,the pressure wave and heat will sweep you away. I suppose if it happened far far away, you could hide under your desk and be safe. I an only assume that Gonzomax has me on ignore, since he clearly isn’t reading anything I post. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/64 "2011-08-09T00:21:31Z")
A nuke is a tool. A tool of death and war, yes, but a tool nonetheless. The only time tools of war become harmful is when they are placed in the hands of madmen or Skynet. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/65 "2011-08-09T00:44:56Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > There is no doubt some of this. But as events in this thread have demonstrated, a lot of it is willful ignorance. Some people just want to belive that nuclear wepons are the ultimate evil. If they can take steps so their children can survive a nuclear attack and not die of horrifically painful burns, that means they have to admit weapons are just weapons with limited effects and not tools of the Devil himself. I believe the consensus today is that short-term survival wouldn’t mean much if almost all of the initial survivors starved or froze to death within a year because of the destruction of the production and distribution systems. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/66 "2011-08-09T00:56:00Z")
Are we taking about global thermonuclear war, or nuking a single city? Hiroshima came back surprisingly quickly, admittedly from a small weapon. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/67 "2011-08-09T01:02:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What state were you living in, Gonzo? Michigan . it was in Rouge Park. we saw it come in and watched them drop the missiles into the ground. there was a huge metal plate on the ground. As a kid it was fascinating to think about. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/68 "2011-08-09T01:18:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Michigan . it was in Rouge Park. we saw it come in and watched them drop the missiles into the ground. there was a huge metal plate on the ground. As a kid it was fascinating to think about. I’d swear my Father showed me minuteman silos in Arkansas, but Wiki doesn’t show any. Most of these went in less populated areas under represented in the House of Representatives. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/69 "2011-08-09T01:25:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’d swear my Father showed me minuteman silos in Arkansas, but Wiki doesn’t show any. Most of these went in less populated areas under represented in the House of Representatives. 🙂 There used to be some [Titan II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-25C_Titan_II) sites [in Arkansas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:308th_SMW_Titan_II_Missile_Sites.png). Perhaps it was one of those. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/70 "2011-08-09T01:50:07Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I believe the consensus today is that short-term survival wouldn’t mean much if almost all of the initial survivors starved or froze to death within a year because of the destruction of the production and distribution systems. The same banal tautology is equally true of earthquake, epidemic of conventional war. Do you also think that it’s pointless telling your child how to avoid disease on the basis of a worst-case scenario? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/71 "2011-08-09T02:11:52Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There used to be some [Titan II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-25C_Titan_II) sites [in Arkansas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:308th_SMW_Titan_II_Missile_Sites.png). Perhaps it was one of those. Thanks, Buckner. I remember domes covering them that he showed me from the car. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/72 "2011-08-09T02:17:41Z")
There was no dome. After awhile they put a crappy chain link fence around them. But since we saw the missiles, We knew they were there. They did not even treat it like a military site. No guards, no towers, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/73 "2011-08-09T02:32:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There was no dome. After awhile they put a crappy chain link fence around them. But since we saw the missiles, We knew they were there. > They did not even treat it like a military site. No guards, no towers, nothing. I recall the fence and no towers or guards, anyway. Were the missiles underground? What covered the pit? Google is my friend.[That’s it.](http://www.flickr.com/photos/whatdafa/2783383402/) ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/74 "2011-08-09T02:33:08Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You might be thinking of the [Spartan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIM-49_Spartan) and [Sprint](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_(missile)) programs. I have an uncle who worked on something related to the Sprint program or saw footage of test firing somehow and was flabbergasted at the acceleration and rapid change in direction. A video shows the launch and interception of a re-entry vehicle. The kill was achieved by a nuclear warhead, not a kinetic impact. Note that this is in real time: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YZZV464z9g8/hqdefault.jpg "Sprint Missile") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZZV464z9g8) You note that the Sprint becomes white-hot from air friction at the end of the second stage burn. From 0 to Mach 10 in five seconds in the early 1970s. I ran into the Sprint program director in North Carolina about 12 years ago. After finishing up on the program, he took a pottery class for two weeks and decided to switch careers. Somehow, I mentioned the word “ablative” at his shop and we had an interesting conversation for about 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/75 "2011-08-09T02:39:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I recall the fence and no towers or guards, anyway. Were the missiles underground? What covered the pit? > > Google is my friend.[That’s it.](http://www.flickr.com/photos/whatdafa/2783383402/) Nope. It had no presence that could be seen from a hundred yards. [D-69 Nike Missile Launcher Site Rouge Park - Detroit, Michigan](http://wikimapia.org/8090298/D-69-Nike-Missile-Launcher-Site-Rouge-Park) Here is a picture. Note it is a Nike base. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/76 "2011-08-09T02:44:33Z")
[Nile Missile Locations Michigane](http://www.techbastard.com/missile/nike/locationsmi.php) I may be old but my memory is fine. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/77 "2011-08-09T02:53:50Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Nope. It had no presence that could be seen from a hundred yards. > [D-69 Nike Missile Launcher Site Rouge Park - Detroit, Michigan](http://wikimapia.org/8090298/D-69-Nike-Missile-Launcher-Site-Rouge-Park) Here is a picture. Note it is a Nike base. That’s a lot of help seeing it from the roadside, dude. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/78 "2011-08-09T02:57:54Z")
Ah > [@](#): > > “The silo became operational in 1963 and was deactivated in 1982 as part of President Reagan’s policy (announced in 1981) of decommissioning the Titan II missiles. It is a common misconception that this was the result of a weapons reduction treaty, but was in fact simply part of a weapon systems modernization program. All operational Titan II silos throughout the country were demolished, including 18 sites around McConnell AFB in Wichita, Kansas, 17 sites around Little Rock AFB, Arkansas (one additional site previously damaged beyond repair in a mishap/non-nuclear explosion)” . [Here we go](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Missile_Museum) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697/79 "2011-08-10T16:39:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s a lot of help seeing it from the roadside, dude. :rolleyes: The red rectangle shows where the site was. I suppose even with rolling your eyes, you can see there was no tip off. You are looking at the school. We knew where the site was and used to dare each other to run across the launch site. We thought they had some secret way of getting us if we did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-we-all-died/591697.md?page=3)