# When were elephants wiped out in Europe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067 "2003-12-19T23:17:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/21 "2003-12-20T23:40:56Z")
As for the ancient Roman elephant remains: “Hunts” [_[venationes](http://www.the-colosseum.net/games/hunts.htm)_] of imported beasts from Africa or Asia, and combat between beasts or between man and beasts. was quite common in the Roman Colosseum by the time of Sulla (ca. 100 BC). Hannibal poisoned himself at the court of Bithynia’s Prusia I (who was about to betray him to the Romans) in 183 BC. The two eras were contemporaneous within the limits of carbon dating when the remains were discovered. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/22 "2003-12-21T02:22:35Z")
IIRC, _Elephas falconi_ was, without looking it up (I don’t quite know where my copy of **Mammal Evolution** by Savage and someone else has gotten itself to), a pygmy elephant native to Malta. It was about the size of a Shetland pony. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/23 "2003-12-21T04:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrFidelius \* > \*\*IIRC, _Elephas falconi_ was… a pygmy elephant native to Malta. It was about the size of a Shetland pony. \*\* So what you’re saying was that the Maltese Falcon was really an elephant? :o ---
**Author:** ![Daver914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Daver914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daver914)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/24 "2003-12-21T08:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nichol\_storm \* > \*\*Before the time of Charlemagne, at least. The Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid sent him an Indian elephant named Abu al-Abbas as a gift in 801. Charlemagne adored the animal and was heartbroken when it died a decade later. \*\* I see someone’s been reading Will Cuppy… ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/25 "2003-12-29T16:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sugaree \* > \*\*I read that a Mediterrean island (Malta?) had both dwarf elephants and giant dormice. Cool! \*\* Maybe that’s where the idea that elephants are scared of mice originated? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kristen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c4cdca/32.png) [@Kristen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kristen)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/26 "2003-12-29T17:59:25Z")
If you spend much time at a zoo, you might see an elephant spot a small animal like a squirrel or pigeon. They can keep turning their head and moving in circles to watch the thing, which gives the impress of being afraid, but is more like just passing the time in stir. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/27 "2003-12-31T04:53:18Z")
Slightly off-topic: If indeed they existed in the European peninsula, why is it that frozen woolly mammoths seem to be always found in Siberia? Why not Scandanavia or Scotland? Is it because of the isolation of the Siberian tundra? Or are they in fact found throughout the arctic circle? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/28 "2003-12-31T05:45:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The God of Muesli Bars \* > \*\*Slightly off-topic: If indeed they existed in the European peninsula, why is it that frozen woolly mammoths seem to be always found in Siberia? Why not Scandanavia or Scotland? Is it because of the isolation of the Siberian tundra? Or are they in fact found throughout the arctic circle? \*\* There’s a much larger area with permafrost to a depth that would encase a mammoth in Siberia than in Europe. Mammoth remains have been found in Alaska too, but owing to ground shifting over the past 10,000 years, more often than not the Alaskan remains are not intact carcasses but frozen mammothburger. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/29 "2003-12-31T07:16:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*There’s a much larger area with permafrost to a depth that would encase a mammoth in Siberia than in Europe. Mammoth remains have been found in Alaska too, but owing to ground shifting over the past 10,000 years, more often than not the Alaskan remains are not intact carcasses but frozen mammothburger. \*\* Ah-ha! Many thanks, Polycarp. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/30 "2003-12-31T23:43:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*There’s a much larger area with permafrost to a depth that would encase a mammoth in Siberia than in Europe. Mammoth remains have been found in Alaska too, but owing to ground shifting over the past 10,000 years, more often than not the Alaskan remains are not intact carcasses but frozen mammothburger. \*\* Not to mention the fact that Scotland, well, isn’t frozen. You might as well ask why frozen mammoths aren’t often found in North Africa. The real question here is how the hell did this relict family of mammoths get onto an _island_ ? Also, to those of you mentioning Hannibal- Hannibal’s elephants were imported from Africa via the strait of Gibraltar. They are no more native to Europe than the ones munching hay in Regent’s Park. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/31 "2004-01-01T04:35:45Z")
Amplification on permafrost: On researching this a bit, I find that it’s found in 85% of Alaska, 50% of Russia, 50% of Canada, and presumably ~100% of Antarctica. I woul;d have thought that the northern interior of Finland and Sweden would have cool enough summers to allow subsurface freezing to remain, but evidently that’s not true. So amend my “Europe” to “European Russia” – because there’s no permfa ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/32 "2004-01-01T04:48:34Z")
razzin frazzin “Submit” button… “…because there’s no permafrost elsewhere in Europe.” (And there’s no semicolon in “would” either.) ---
**Author:** ![Strychnos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Strychnos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strychnos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067/33 "2004-01-04T04:48:08Z")
There are mammoth finds from many European countries, several from Finland, for instance. But since there is no permafrost, only bones survive to this day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-were-elephants-wiped-out-in-europe/220067.md?page=1)