# When will Christiananity be finished?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 16, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568 "2002-10-16T21:01:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/21 "2002-10-17T14:13:07Z")
I am hoping it is soon also.
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### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/22 "2002-10-17T14:34:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by kniz \*
> \*\*[sup]If you really want to know the answer spend some time reading **The Power of Myth** [/sup] \*\*
I’m reading all of Joseph Campbell’s books right now. It’s where I get most of my ideas on religion and spirituality. I highly recommend his books!
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/23 "2002-10-17T16:34:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by photopat \*
> \*\*Judaism has been around even longer, as have Hinduism and Buddhism. Christianity will be around for a long time, I suspect.
> \*\*
But none of these (I think, but I don’t know much about Hinduism) are built like Christianity. I’d expect Christianity to fade before any of those three since they do not have something like the expectation of the return of Christ.
Can someone who’s actually taken a comparitive religion class chime in on this idea?
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/24 "2002-10-17T16:57:19Z")
It seems likely that the early Christians did consider that the return of Christ was to be expected in the short term (by comparison with, say, a normal human lifespan). After the first century or so, it was clear that this was not the case.
Perhaps this lead to a crisis; I don’t know. At any rate, that is the time that I would have expected this to be problem. Once you accept that Christ does not have to return within the lifespand of anybody now living, the question of how long his return might be deferred becomes irrelevant to the implications of Christianity for your own life. 2,000 years is no more of a problem than 200 years or 20,000 years.
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/25 "2002-10-17T16:59:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by asterion \*
> \*\*
>
> But none of these (I think, but I don’t know much about Hinduism) are built like Christianity. I’d expect Christianity to fade before any of those three since they do not have something like the expectation of the return of Christ.
>
> Can someone who’s actually taken a comparitive religion class chime in on this idea? \*\*
Jews expect the Messiah, and they’ve been waiting even longer than Christians.
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### Author:  [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/26 "2002-10-17T18:50:10Z")
Depends on the tech we are able to achieve. If a past viewer as proposed in the book **The Light of Other Days** gets invented. Or some other technology that allows us to glimpse what went on in the past. Like say alien satelite recording machines that have been filming the surface of the earth for millions of years. Or perhaps we discover that the Earth is a stocked zoo or garden, and that all religions are created by man out of ignorance, fear, and/or greed.
We may meet the entity(s) that designed us once we reach a certain level of sophistication and find that they are not perfect nor beyond judgement. Or perhaps there is a true “bible”. Not one written by men, but one written into the fabric of reality as proposed in the novel **Contact**. What we find on other planets may change our views. Do we find life? If so, do we find civilizations? Do they have religion? If so, are they similar to ours, or are they based on their inherant lack of knowledge and their physical traits and needs? There is so much evidence to gather it is hard to guess what we may find or how it will affect us.
What if we find the physical nature of conciousness and can duplicate it ourselves. What if the reductionists turn out to be right and the brain and perception become completely understandable and explainable? What if we become relatively immortal? What if we discover how life can be created without any magic or unknowable metaphysical properties? These things should all change the views of the religious. Those who say these things would not cause them to rethink their views are examples of exactly what I hate about religion. No matter what data comes in they will not change their view, they will try to spin the data to match their view or claim it must all be lies. Primitive stuff if you ask me.
Barring these type of advances in knowledge, Christianity will last for quite a while. As long as their is plausable deniability. If you can’t prove that are wrong then they must be correct. Many people have a need to have a reason for life and morality. Many folks would be scared silly if they let themselves accepth that they have no idea where they come from or what the ultimate fate of their perception will be. As long as the answers to these (our greatest questions) are out of the reach of empirical knowledge, the fearful will pretend that their lack of knowledge is not a deficit, but a prerequisite for an e-ticket into some sort of eternal disney land. **The Bible** is one of the greatest and most successful examples of propaganda ever seen. It promises/threatens you with something you don’t get until you die, insists that you believe in it’s truth without evidence, and uses memetics with brutal effectiveness to spread itself across the world. It is designed to protect itself from new knowledge: the opposite of progress. This is all IMO, naturally, but I suspect I am not far off base.
Basically, Christianity as a literal belief will last until we have cured our greatest ignorance. Darkness will prevail until we shine the light of knowledge and open our eyes. I’m guessing there will be more in the light then anyone ever dreamed of in the dark.
DaLovin’ Dj
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### Author:  [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/27 "2002-10-17T19:54:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by pkbites \*
> \*\*
> He’s been dead for 2000 years \*\*
Sorry, have to disagree with this statement. He’s very much alive at the right hand of the Father and He **is** coming again. Did the resurrrection slip your mind?
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### Author:  [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/28 "2002-10-17T21:15:48Z")
People aren’t born with an innate understanding of Christianity. It has to be taught, in all of its complexity, to a large body of people who are not only willing to study it, but who are willing to _believe_ in it.
Christianity–and several other religions–likely won’t be forgotten for a long time, because they play such a large role in today’s world and in world history. But that doesn’t mean that _worship_ will endure. There aren’t a heck of a lot of people out there fearing the arrival of Surt and his fire-giants these days, although we haven’t entirely forgotten him–yet. The same goes for Zeus, Osiris, and thousands of others. Things aren’t looking so good for Zoroaster these days, either.
It’s not impossible to intentionally destroy a large, expansionist, religion with a “modern” message, either. Manichaeanism is now considered extinct, despite a once widespread popularity and an international following. It was supplanted–or exterminated–by religions both older and younger than it was.
New religions continually sprout and some appear to have a chance at survival–Mormonism and Scientology, for example. At the same time, with the (hopefully) spreading concept of freedom of religion, many are also choosing freedom _from_ religion. I hope it won’t offend too many when I say that I already think of Christianity and its predictions with the same detachment that I have when I think of Norse mythology and Ragnarok.
Assuming we survive as a people and as a continuous society, sooner or later everyone is going to see _today_’s Christianity the same way I do. If Christianity continues to batter itself against rational thought, as it insists on doing with concepts such as birth control and evolution, it’s going to sink a lot faster than it would if it successfully evolves to supply the answers for which contemporary people are searching.
But either way, I wouldn’t expect to go to sleep for another two thousand years and wake up to see millions of people still eagerly awaiting Jesus’ return, unless someone can show me that there is something about Christianity that is both unique and immutable over time.
Who knows, maybe someone can?
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### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/29 "2002-10-17T21:36:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Sorry, have to disagree with this statement. He’s very much alive at the right hand of the Father and He is coming again. Did the resurrrection slip your mind?
Like I said, the underlying metaphor and mysticism of Christian mythological constructs will have to be made more important than their literal truth in order for it to survive in the future. I do believe this is happen now, albeit very very slowly.
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### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/30 "2002-10-17T23:02:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But either way, I wouldn’t expect to go to sleep for another two thousand years and wake up to see millions of people still eagerly awaiting Jesus’ return, unless someone can show me that there is something about Christianity that is both unique and immutable over time.
>
> Who knows, maybe someone can?
The mythological concepts of Christianity are very powerful. So powerful in fact that they inspire fanatical obediance from many.
These include symbols and icons such as:
the cross
angels
the face of Jesus
halos
crown of thorns
the fish symbol
the virgin Mary
assorted images of saints
and mythological constructs such as:
virgin birth
messiah
resurrection
the second coming
persecution
martyrdom
the chosen people
There are more obviously. This is just a small sample of the different constructs that make Christianity attractive to so many people. This why I think it will last in some way shape or form alot longer than you may expect.
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### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/31 "2002-10-17T23:10:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But either way, I wouldn’t expect to go to sleep for another two thousand years and wake up to see millions of people still eagerly awaiting Jesus’ return, unless someone can show me that there is something about Christianity that is both unique and immutable over time.
>
> Who knows, maybe someone can?
The mythological concepts of Christianity are very powerful. So powerful in fact that they inspire fanatical obediance from many.
These include symbols and icons such as:
the cross
angels
the face of Jesus
halos
crown of thorns
the fish symbol
the virgin Mary
assorted images of saints
and mythological constructs such as:
virgin birth
messiah
resurrection
the second coming
persecution
martyrdom
the chosen people
There are more obviously. This is just a small sample of the different constructs that make Christianity attractive to so many people. This why I think it will last in some way shape or form alot longer than you may expect.
---
### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/32 "2002-10-17T23:18:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But either way, I wouldn’t expect to go to sleep for another two thousand years and wake up to see millions of people still eagerly awaiting Jesus’ return, unless someone can show me that there is something about Christianity that is both unique and immutable over time.
>
> Who knows, maybe someone can?
The mythological concepts of Christianity are very powerful. So powerful in fact that they inspire fanatical obediance from many.
These include symbols and icons such as:
the cross
angels
the face of Jesus
halos
crown of thorns
the fish symbol
the virgin Mary
assorted images of saints
and mythological constructs such as:
virgin birth
messiah
resurrection
the second coming
persecution
martyrdom
the chosen people
There are more obviously. This is just a small sample of the different constructs that make Christianity attractive to so many people. This why I think it will last in some way shape or form alot longer than you may expect.
---
### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/33 "2002-10-17T23:24:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But either way, I wouldn’t expect to go to sleep for another two thousand years and wake up to see millions of people still eagerly awaiting Jesus’ return, unless someone can show me that there is something about Christianity that is both unique and immutable over time.
>
> Who knows, maybe someone can?
The mythological concepts of Christianity are very powerful. So powerful in fact that they inspire fanatical obediance from many.
These include symbols and icons such as:
the cross
angels
the face of Jesus
halos
crown of thorns
the fish symbol
the virgin Mary
assorted images of saints
and mythological constructs such as:
virgin birth
messiah
resurrection
the second coming
persecution
martyrdom
the chosen people
There are more obviously. This is just a small sample of the different constructs that make Christianity attractive to so many people. This why I think it will last in some way shape or form alot longer than you may expect.
---
### Author:  [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/34 "2002-10-17T23:39:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \*
> \*\*
>
> wow, this makes twice in a week that I have openly agreed with Polycarp on a religious item. Maybe the end really is near!
>
> God will do things in God’s time and on God’s schedule, not ours. And it makes no difference at all in my faith whether Jesus’s return is tomorrow, or in another 12,000 years. The only material things that really, really matter are a) that he really lived, b) that he really died, c) that he really rose, and d) that he’s really coming back - regardless of when it happens. \*\*
I concur, **Joe\_Cool**. I have a Scripture I’d like to share :
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:3-4. I pretty much think that those who are now starting to say “where is He, why hasn’t He come yet. He isn’t going to come, etc” are a fulfillment of prophecy. IMHO we’re living in those last days before His return but even if He were to delay His coming for a few thousand more years that wouldn’t affect the church or destroy in in anyway. I thought I saw one poster who said something about Christianity eventually dying our. Look at this Scripture : And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock (the rock of what Peter just said being "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God. Jesus is the Rock on which the church is built) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18. The church may be forced underground as it has been in the past and is today in some countries but it will never ever be destroyed. We have His own word on that. So whether or not He comes tomorrow or a thousand years from now we are to “Occupy til I come”. Luke 19:13 from a parable Jesus told.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/35 "2002-10-18T04:35:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by JustPlainBryan \*
> \*\*
>
> I agree with this. My take on it is slighty different, though. Eventually there will be a time when the major Christian institutions will realize that the literal truth of their respective doctrines is not as important as the underyling metaphors behind it (I think this is starting to happen now). \*\*
This is getting awfully close to Plato’s “noble lie” as described in _The Republic_. Among other things, it means that truth doesn’t matter as long as people get by in life by believing in myths.
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### Author:  [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/37 "2002-10-18T11:52:57Z")
**His4Ever**
> [@](#):
>
> I pretty much think that those who are now starting to say “where is He, why hasn’t He come yet. He isn’t going to come, etc” are a fulfillment of prophecy.
Well, we were approaching harmony among the Christians, but I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. People have been saying “Where is He? Why hasn’t He come yet?” since Christ was taken into heaven (Ok, probably the next day). Certainly the disciples and Paul expected Him back within their lifetimes, and one of the Epistles seems to write of Christ coming back within the lifetimes of those reading it. Later, medieval Europe trembled at the thought of Christ’s return in 1000 A.D. In the late 1800’s in the US, there were groups of Christians who believed that Christ would come at the end of the 19th century.
Remember that Christ said “The Son of Man will come at the time you least expect him” (Matthew 24:44) and there are several references in both the Epistles and Revelation, as well as the parable in Matthew 24 to Him coming like a thief in the night. Even the chapter of Peter you cited goes on to say “But the Day of the Lord will come; it will come, unexpected as a thief.” (2 Peter 3:10) Admittedly this appears to refer to Judgement Day, rather than Christ’s return, but since 2 Peter was introduced . . .
**Hayduke Lives!** , I’m afraid I may disappoint you by agreeing with both **Polycarp** and **Joe\_Cool**. When Christ returns is simply not relevant to my day to day life as a Christian or as a human being (the two are the same, as far as I’m concerned). That Christ will return, I believe. However, if I simpy cleaned up my act because I expected him to return imminently, it would be meaningless.
CJ
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### Author:  [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/38 "2002-10-18T12:07:11Z")
You do have a point, **CJ**. Although I do believe we can know it is near because of things that were predicted to be going on in the world at that time, it doesn’t really matter as far as day to day Christian living is concerned. You’re right in that we can’t know the exact date and He’ll come like a “thief in the night”.
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### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/39 "2002-10-18T12:16:04Z")
Good grief, this thread is almost a page long and nobody’s even referred obliquely to the Great Prophet Zarquon and the Restaurant at the End of the Universe? I think some of you need some remedial training in geekiness. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/40 "2002-10-18T12:22:02Z")
What? Huh? Sorry, I was at the bank depositing my penny for the reservation.
CJ
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2002, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-christiananity-be-finished/132568/41 "2002-10-18T13:24:37Z")
The fact that Israel is back in their land is proof that it could happen nowadays , and couldn’t before 1948 or 1967, as the case may be.
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