# When will Cliven Bundy (et. al.) be arrested by the federal government? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521 "2015-04-12T22:51:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/181 "2015-04-20T14:42:02Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The Ruby Ridge hijack is, I think, pointless. Most objective observers could say that both sides reacted poorly and it resulted in needless deaths. > > I think the Feds are trying not to repeat the mistakes of RR regarding Bundy, which is good, but I do hope he’s brought to eventual justice. If he really is fighting a good fight (as some seem to be implying) then it should be played out in court, not with guns in the desert. > [@Deeg](#): > > But their effectiveness was that they were willing to go through the courts and go to jail. Bundy is just trying to get away with not paying his fees. > If you are in any way supporting Bundy then you are supporting violent resistance. > I agree. MLK was willing to take the next steps. He spent time in jail for his cause. He went out and gave speeches and suffered beatings. In the end he was largely successful. Bundy will never affect any change while hiding behind his guns on his ranch. He’s not willing to take any more steps. The reference to Ruby Ridge shows what can happen when an out-of-control government agency (in that case, it was the ATF) can do to private citizens if they so chose. You claim the Ruby Ridge hijack is pointless, but you also say, “I think the Feds are trying not to repeat the mistakes of RR regarding Bundy”. If you believe the feds were not trying to repeat Ruby Ridge, then the thread reference is not pointless. Bundy’s actions have already been effective. Bundy hasn’t been arrested, and his cattle still roam the BLM’s tortoise playground. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/182 "2015-04-20T15:44:02Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > The courts are ran by the government. If you’re trying to fight the government, it helps not to do it on their home court. Stop assuming the government is one monolithic entity. Bundy should fight his claim in court because its the proper venue to conduct such a fight. He has already proven there are elements in the government that agree with him. There is no better place to fight than in court for his claim ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/183 "2015-04-20T16:35:29Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Stop assuming the government is one monolithic entity. Bundy should fight his claim in court because its the proper venue to conduct such a fight. He has already proven there are elements in the government that agree with him. There is no better place to fight than in court for his claim Unless you don’t have to. Government agencies don’t operate in a vacuum. Someone in government has called off the Bundy cattle round-up, and even returned his cattle. Someone in government has told the LEO’s to stand down and ignore the court order. The puzzle continues. If you’re volunteering to pay for Bundy’s defense, I wish you the best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/184 "2015-04-20T17:05:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You claim the Ruby Ridge hijack is pointless, but you also say, “I think the Feds are trying not to repeat the mistakes of RR regarding Bundy”. If you believe the feds were not trying to repeat Ruby Ridge, then the thread reference is not pointless. Sorry if I wasn’t clear; it’s pointless to try to apportion the amount of blame between Weaver and the Feds. Both parties acted poorly and anybody who says otherwise is pushing an agenda. The Feds, at least, are attempting to learn from those mistakes. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Bundy’s actions have already been effective. Bundy hasn’t been arrested, and his cattle still roam the BLM’s tortoise playground. True, but some people are pretending that Bundy is making an attempt to fight the good fight and change the government; if that is true he is failing. Bundy is a whacko who is trying to pretend the Feds don’t exist so he can do what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/185 "2015-04-20T22:20:29Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > …True, but some people are pretending that Bundy is making an attempt to fight the good fight and change the government; if that is true he is failing. Bundy is a whacko who is trying to pretend the Feds don’t exist so he can do what he wants. (post shortened) It’s my understanding that the BLM changed the rules, and created the fees. That means that the BLM can, once again, change the rules, and remove or increase the fees. As far as I know, Bundy pays his taxes to both the state and the IRS. I’m sure he knows federal agencies exist. Bundy is putting up a fight. And it appears that, besides the supporters who physically stand beside him, he has supporters in very high places. They may yet change the BLM’s position. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/186 "2015-04-21T00:28:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Stop assuming the government is one monolithic entity. Bundy should fight his claim in court because its the proper venue to conduct such a fight. He has already proven there are elements in the government that agree with him. There is no better place to fight than in court for his claim There’s no disputing the government runs the courts. It’s silly to claim otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/187 "2015-04-21T00:32:01Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > But their effectiveness was that they were willing to go through the courts and go to jail. Bundy is just trying to get away with not paying his fees. The effectiveness of the marches was shaming the American public into doing what was right. There were courts throughout the entire period of slavery and Jim Crow. The Dred Scott case seems proof positive that courts are a mixed bag. You don’t know Bundy’s motivations. > [@Deeg](#): > > If you are in any way supporting Bundy then you are supporting violent resistance. Nonsense. That’s a false dilemma. > [@Deeg](#): > > I agree. MLK was willing to take the next steps. He spent time in jail for his cause. He went out and gave speeches and suffered beatings. In the end he was largely successful. Bundy will never affect any change while hiding behind his guns on his ranch. He’s not willing to take any more steps. He’s not hiding behind guns and a ranch. Everybody knows right where he’s at. He’s made the price of enforcing boneheaded policy too high. That’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/188 "2015-04-21T00:37:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > As far as I know, Bundy pays his taxes to both the state and the IRS. I’m sure he knows federal agencies exist. It’s been repeatedly pointed out that your understanding of the entire situation is incorrect. [QUOTE=Lord Bundy] I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing. [/QUOTE] Pretty straightforward. Go ahead and throw your hat in with this bean if you want. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/189 "2015-04-21T03:05:09Z")
Interesting that this one case of ignoring federal law is so important. I think it’s because it’s politically inconvenient for armed citizens to demonstrate some minor form of balance of power. I have noticed that the left finds it awfully convenient for the federal laws concerning immigration or marijuana possession are ignored. Where’s the intellectual consistency? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/190 "2015-04-21T03:16:07Z")
There is a difference. If the feds usually enforced federal laws about marijuana, but let this one marijuana farmer get away with growing it because he said he didn’t recognize federal authority, they’d shut him down and imprison him forever, and rightly so. On the other hand, if the feds usually turned a blind eye toward ranchers grazing their cattle on public land, and didn’t try to collect grazing fees from any of them, nobody would give a shit. This is about Bundy not recognizing federal supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/191 "2015-04-21T03:45:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Interesting that this one case of ignoring federal law is so important. I think it’s because it’s politically inconvenient for armed citizens to demonstrate some minor form of balance of power. I have noticed that the left finds it awfully convenient for the federal laws concerning immigration or marijuana possession are ignored. Where’s the intellectual consistency? This X1000. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/192 "2015-04-21T04:11:42Z")
I can’t recall a single marijuana dispensery owner who was given his seized plants back after facing down the DEA with an armed militia. Whenever that happens, let me know and I’ll be first in line to call for justice. Until then, don’t pretend like the two situations are equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/193 "2015-04-21T05:25:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I can’t recall a single marijuana dispensery owner who was given his seized plants back after facing down the DEA with\*\* an armed militia\*\*. Whenever that happens, let me know and I’ll be first in line to call for justice. Until then, don’t pretend like the two situations are equivalent. So it is about the guns as Octopus suggested? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/194 "2015-04-21T05:43:00Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > So it is about the guns as Octopus suggested? No, it’s about violently resisting the authority of the gov’t. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/195 "2015-04-21T05:51:42Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > No, it’s about violently resisting the authority of the gov’t. How dare they resist the government? That’s what it’s about? Good to know. Thanks a million. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/196 "2015-04-21T06:21:42Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > How dare they resist the government? That’s what it’s about? Good to know. Thanks a million. The functional word you seem to be blind to is violent. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/197 "2015-04-21T13:30:08Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It’s been repeatedly pointed out that your understanding of the entire situation is incorrect. Hahahaha. Unfortunately for you, none of them have been very convincing. The primary question of this thread is - When will Cliven Bundy (et. al.) be arrested by the federal government? The answer to that question appears to be - never. The BLM has called off its efforts physically remove Bundy cattle, and the LEO’s have been ordered to stand down and ignore court orders. Until someone can discover who authorized this latest attempt to forcibly drive Bundy cattle off BLM land AND discover who overrode that authorization, the puzzle remains unsolved. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/198 "2015-04-21T13:36:19Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > The functional word you seem to be blind to is violent. Good to know. To quote Inigo Montoya, “You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/199 "2015-04-21T13:40:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Unfortunately for you, none of them have been very convincing. You said you were sure that Cliven Bundy recognizes that the federal government exists. I quoted _Cliven Bundy himself_ say that _he does not recognize that the federal government exists._ If that’s not a convincing display of your own ignorance, I don’t know what is. > [@doorhinge](#): > > To quote Inigo Montoya, “You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” 😃 If pointing weapons at people in order to get what you want isn’t violent behavior, then I guess you’re right, I don’t know what violent behavior is. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521/200 "2015-04-21T14:40:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > To quote Inigo Montoya, “You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” 😃 To quote Voltaire, “A witty saying proves nothing”. Come back with an argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-cliven-bundy-et-al-be-arrested-by-the-federal-government/717521.md?page=11)