# When will HBO's Game of Thrones catch up with the books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673 "2015-03-22T10:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/1 "2015-03-22T10:01:20Z")
No book spoilers, please. The show producers plan to do seven seasons total, which means only two more seasons after the one that’s about to start in a few weeks. It also means the show will pass the books – the producers got a rough outline of the endgame from Martin – unless the book that might be released later this year is the last one. For the book readers, your best guess: When will the show catch up to the books, do you think? This season? Next season? Or has it already? I know nothing of the books. I’m not overly concerned about vague or general spoilers, but ideally try to stick to what’s aired on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Teach-me-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@Teach-me-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach-me-not)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/2 "2015-03-22T12:23:09Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The show producers plan to do seven seasons total Is there a cite for this? Given that the third book was already split into two seasons, and the later books aren’t any smaller, I don’t see how they could wrap up in seven seasons 😕. They would have to deviate from the books far more and start wrapping up with this season itself. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/3 "2015-03-22T12:51:09Z")
They first said it during press for last season: [‘Game of Thrones’ team: 7 seasons is the plan](http://www.ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons) > [@](#): > > Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss tell EW that seven is probably the magic number. > > “It feels like this is the midpoint for us,” Benioff says. “If we’re going to go seven seasons, which is the plan, season 4 is right down the middle, the pivot point.” > > The seven season goal-line has been floated in the media before, but the writer-producers of the acclaimed fantasy hit series says they’re firmer than before that three more seasons sounds about right. > > “I would say it’s the goal we’ve had from the beginning,” Benioff says. “It was our unstated goal, because to start on a show and say your goal is seven seasons is the height of lunacy. Once we got to the point where we felt like we’re going to be able to tell this tale to its conclusion, that became [an even clearer] goal. Seven gods, seven kingdoms, seven seasons. It feels right to us.” Then this week there was another article talking about how the producers still want to end after 7 but HBO would prefer more: [HBO talks Game of Thrones future: More than 7 seasons wanted](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/11/game-thrones-end/article_2137333) > [@](#): > > For now, the showrunners will only say that giving Thrones the strongest possible ending is their biggest priority. “We want to go out on our absolute highest note,” Weiss says. “We don’t want people to finally see the end and say, ‘Thank god that’s over.’” Adds Benioff: “We know basically how many hours are left in this story. We don’t want to add 10 hours to that. It’s about finding that sweet spot so it works for us and for HBO and, most of all, it works for the audience.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/4 "2015-03-22T12:58:13Z")
Well… there are more than seven gods and seven kingdoms in the story world… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/5 "2015-03-22T12:58:21Z")
[According to Cracked.com](http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/why-we-should-be-glad-game-thrones-ditching-books/), they probably already have - because the next season is being written before the current season has even aired, and the books end somewhere around the tail end of next season. Which means that when they start airing season 5 over this summer, they’ll also be writing/shooting stuff Georgie hasn’t written yet at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/6 "2015-03-22T13:18:49Z")
Ouch; that cracked article appears to be written for show fans but then they dropped what appears to be a pretty significant book spoiler in the middle of it: Let’s be honest – you want to see whether Jon Snow marries DaenerysWait, what? Seriously? Is that pulled out of thin air, or is that relationship in the books? The “safe” non-spoilery part of the article ends just past the picture of Robocop. You can read the next paragraph after the robocop picture, then the “no publication plans” image, but then stop. Right after that they start detonating what appear to be spoiler bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/7 "2015-03-22T13:27:21Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Ouch; that cracked article appears to be written for show fans but then they dropped what appears to be a pretty significant book spoiler in the middle of it: > > Let’s be honest – you want to see whether Jon Snow marries DaenerysWait, what? Seriously? Is that pulled out of thin air, or is that relationship in the books? > > The “safe” non-spoilery part of the article ends just past the picture of Robocop. You can read the next paragraph after the robocop picture, then the “no publication plans” image, but then stop. Right after that they start detonating what appear to be spoiler bombs. That isn’t in the books (yet). Its just fan speculation. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/8 "2015-03-22T13:31:02Z")
Oh, okay, then nevermind my warning. In for a penny in for a pound, after reading that I read the rest of the article. Nothing else spoilery in it. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/9 "2015-03-22T15:30:50Z")
I don’t read the books, only watch the shows and avoid book spoilers too but my understanding is that the stated reason Bran and Hodor don’t show up this season is their story-line on the show has already caught up with the books. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/10 "2015-03-22T16:11:21Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t read the books, only watch the shows and avoid book spoilers too but my understanding is that the stated reason Bran and Hodor don’t show up this season is their story-line on the show has already caught up with the books. It hasn’t… although it ALMOST has. There is some stuff in the most recent book about Bran that has not yet been shown, just not very much stuff, and possibly not very significant stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/11 "2015-03-22T16:17:11Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > That isn’t in the books (yet). Its just fan speculation. I’d go further and call it either “shipping” or “wishful thinking”. So far the show has taken four seasons to get a little more than three books in (some story lines are a little ahead), which doesn’t bode well for finishing in 7 seasons. On the other hand books 4 and 5 sorta overlap and feature different characters so they are more like one really big book. They are also far “wordier” than the earlier books so there aren’t as many plot points to cover for each character. I could easily see them fit both books into one season, with maybe some spilling over into season 6. Which leaves slightly less than two seasons to deal with the last two books. While that Cracked article is correct in stating that they probably already started writing season 6 they completely ignore the fact that while book 6 is not DONE it has been in writing for several years already, and while GRRM has no input on how the show is written he also has no reason to keep things from them so it is very unlikely the show runners are simply winging it and making stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/12 "2015-03-22T17:23:06Z")
I thought that scene where the White Walker guy turned the baby into one of them was already ahead of the books. Essentially, it was a spoiler for book readers, which must be a nice “turnabout is fairplay” for those who have only seen the show. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/13 "2015-03-22T18:11:24Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t read the books, only watch the shows and avoid book spoilers too but my understanding is that the stated reason Bran and Hodor don’t show up this season is their story-line on the show has already caught up with the books. I’ve neither read the books or seen the show, but I _have_ seen it online somewhere that the actor who plays Bran is getting too big for the actor who plays Hodor to carry around. ---
**Author:** ![Teach-me-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@Teach-me-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach-me-not)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/14 "2015-03-22T18:49:13Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > he also has no reason to keep things from them so it is very unlikely the show runners are simply winging it and making stuff up. Good point, this. But would GRRM agree to spoiling the book ending in the TV series? Mayhaps the ending will broadly resemble the book, but the details will all be different? Even that seems too spoilery too me. It’s gonna be interesting to see how they will take the show forward. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/15 "2015-03-22T19:00:05Z")
Maybe it doesn’t have to be a case where the show has to follow the books or vice versa. Maybe they can be their own works and be enjoyed separately. I’ve seen all the seasons but have read only the first book (after seeing the show). And while it’s interesting to get a little more detail from the written version, the TV version is still immensely good and enjoyable. So perhaps they could deviate wildly from each other but still be good and enjoyed on their own individual terms. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/16 "2015-03-22T19:41:01Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I’ve neither read the books or seen the show, but I _have_ seen it online somewhere that the actor who plays Bran is getting too big for the actor who plays Hodor to carry around. Been that way for a couple of seasons now, that’s why they got the wheelbarrow. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/17 "2015-03-22T19:52:23Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Maybe it doesn’t have to be a case where the show has to follow the books or vice versa. I sure hope so. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/18 "2015-03-22T20:01:06Z")
> [@Teach-me-not](#): > > Good point, this. > > But would GRRM agree to spoiling the book ending in the TV series? Mayhaps the ending will broadly resemble the book, but the details will all be different? Even that seems too spoilery too me. > > It’s gonna be interesting to see how they will take the show forward. 🙂 GRRM says the books and series are going to diverge and readers will have to “keep on their toes.”. What’s _actually_ going to happen is the tv series will have an ending, while he’s never going to finish the books. We’re closing in on 20 years since he published the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/19 "2015-03-22T20:40:01Z")
> [@Teach-me-not](#): > > But would GRRM agree to spoiling the book ending in the TV series? Because they paid him a lot of money. Martin gave HBO the outline of the entire story, including his plans for the novels he hasn’t written yet, as part of the original contract. So the series will still be following Martin’s story even if it gets ahead of the books. That said, Martin will be adding in details and making changes as he writes the books and these will differ from what the series as shown. But this has been happening so far with the show’s writers making changes to what’s been in Martin’s books. It’s just that at some point the story in the series will be ahead of the story in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673/20 "2015-03-22T21:42:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Martin gave HBO the outline of the entire story, including his plans for the novels he hasn’t written yet, as part of the original contract. I knew he told them, but I didn’t know it was part of his original contract. Where did you read that? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-hbos-game-of-thrones-catch-up-with-the-books/715673.md?page=2)