# When will people realize that Obama is not a die-hard liberal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550 "2011-04-15T22:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/61 "2011-04-16T17:02:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The “right/left” dynamic was reversed then. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Again, the party system was completely different in those days. All the conservative southern segregationists that today are part of the Republican party were Democrats. Southern Republicans were non-existant, they still hated the Republicans as the party of Lincoln and Reconstruction. Imagine all the vitriol today’s conservative southerners have towards the Democrats, well, back then they felt exactly the same way except it was against Republicans. No shit. I’m trying to tell **Frank** he’s an idiot for saying that LBJ passed big legislation with more conservative Democrats in the House and Senate. But I do maintain that critics of Obama go off their rocker when he does anything too popular. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/62 "2011-04-16T17:15:36Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Mostly in economic issues and foreign affairs. On social issues, with a few glaring exceptions, it is the Republicans who are crying. Well, to be fair, the Republicans can’t give their social conservative supporters what they want on abortion, because so many of them are single-issue voters who will drop out of politics as soon as abortion is outlawed. That’s why they keep pecking away at abortion … they don’t WANT to kill that golden goose. “Roe v. Wade” is matched only by “Citizens United” as a gift to the Republicans from the Supreme Court. Gay marriage might be a similar issue … outlaw it and another big chunk of single issue voters go buh-bye. Social conservatives are screwed by their one-issueness … thank God! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/63 "2011-04-16T17:22:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: No, it’s just that I don’t buy into that standard false equivalency between Left and Right, the one that always gets put out to handwave away any and all claims and desires of the Left and to defend the psychopathic behavior of the Right. Somehow the Left is always just as bad, just as irrational, just as angry, just as corrupt, just as violent, just as delusional, just as bigoted, getting just as much or as little as the Right is. Whether or not there’s any evidence that is so, it _must_ be true. Since the Right has little or nothing good about it, people can’t actually argue in favor of it without looking ridiculous; so they try to smear the Left instead and pretend that there is no difference. I wanna add to the pile-on, this oughtta be put on a sticky on the Great Debates board. So succinct and to the point. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/64 "2011-04-16T17:51:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It definitely doesn’t look like shrewd negotiating. It looks like Obama is letting other people decide what gets done… The way I read Greenwald’s piece, that’s exactly his point. > [@xenophon41](#): > > …the inane “analyses” from pundits like Greenwald who deny Obama’s credentials as a true Scotsman, the endless whining may actually fuck us at the polls in 2012. It’s clear to me that Greenwald is more “liberal” than Obama. For instance, on civil rights issues (wiretapping, detentions, etc.), he takes the strongest positions I know of, strongly criticizing/condemning Obama (just as he did with Bush) while remaining logical and consistent. I like his arguments because they come from a place of ideological purity – I don’t necessarily agree with him, but find he’s well worth reading. Whether or not he qualifies as a “whiner” is an opinion you form yourself (I’d say not); to call his positions/arguments “inane” is ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/65 "2011-04-16T20:30:23Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] I wanna add to the pile-on, this oughtta be put on a sticky on the Great Debates board. So succinct and to the point. [/QUOTE] I didn’t even notice a pile on over this, but I wanted to add that you agreeing with Der Trihs on this subject is really shocking. I’m shocked…SHOCKED I SAY! What next? Gonzomax and Le Jac join the pile on as well and agree with Der on this subject?? :eek: -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/66 "2011-04-16T20:35:49Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Johnson was a great legislator. He knew how to twist arms and get things done. His approach was to wrap one of those bear-sized arms around somebody’s shoulders and say “Come, let us reason together.” If that didn’t work, find a way to humiliate him into acquiescence. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/67 "2011-04-16T22:41:28Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I didn’t even notice a pile on over this, but I wanted to add that you agreeing with Der Trihs on this subject is really shocking. I’m shocked…SHOCKED I SAY! What next? Gonzomax and Le Jac join the pile on as well and agree with Der on this subject?? :eek: > > -XT I’ll alert the media! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/68 "2011-04-16T23:15:56Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Whether or not he qualifies as a “whiner” is an opinion you form yourself (I’d say not); to call his positions/arguments “inane” is ignorant. Note that I didn’t call Greenwald a whiner, but I did call his argument inane. I stand by that for the same reason I’d call any serious use of that fallacy ‘inane’. Greenwald isn’t just saying Obama’s not as liberal as his base, he’s saying Obama isn’t a liberal or ‘progressive’ _at all_, and he casts the President as a cynical pol concerned only with reelection and defense of the status quo. Worse, he ignores Obama’s entire first half term to claim that the President never offers “…impassioned defenses of the Democrats’ vision on anything…” Inane, ahistorical and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/69 "2011-04-17T09:09:19Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I think you mean Chappaqua. Damn spellcheck. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/70 "2011-04-17T13:45:50Z")
No matter how far to the Right he is, he’s still light-years Left of anyone the Republican party put forward. I’ve said it before, and I’ll keep saying it every time threads like these pop up: We didn’t vote for Obama because he was perfect- we voted for him because he was better than the other choices. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/71 "2011-04-17T13:59:56Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > No matter how far to the Right he is, he’s still light-years Left of anyone the Republican party put forward. Considering that he’s mostly continuing Bush policies and helped cover for Bush, I don’t think so. And his unwillingness or lack of interest in standing up to the Republicans means it doesn’t matter much what his opinions actually are. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/72 "2011-04-17T14:11:43Z")
Which is as it should be. We elect a leader doesn’t necessarily mean we follow, the President has no authority to overwhelm the majority opinion, he has the opportunity to change that opnion, if he can. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/73 "2011-04-17T14:17:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > the harassment and surveillance of such leftist “threats” as the ACLU and the Quakers So you’d feel better if we had a Quaker in the Oval Office? I’m sure he’d be known for his honesty and supporting the left… ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/74 "2011-04-17T14:23:56Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Note that I didn’t call Greenwald a whiner, but I did call his argument inane… Well, I have no desire to parse your posts finely enough to show where/why I interpret them as I do, so I’ll just say that our perceptions of what you expressed differ. In the same vein, I have little desire to argue Greenwald’s positions – not only would it be way too time-consuming, but I doubt I could do them adequate justice. Besides, he’s quite prolific; you can read them yourself. So your opinions (on Greenwald, anyway) stand, I disagree, and I have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/75 "2011-04-17T15:58:28Z")
I never thought Obama was a die hard liberal. Who did? The folks who voted for him because he was a liberal should have fallen out early and often in the mid-term and actually voted for a congress that would pull him to the left. But the real depressing fact of left end politics is that mostly we don’t give a shit unless we are rabidly pissed off about something. The US is a right wing democracy. That is an uncommon animal, most of the democracies in the world are way left of us. Our center would be the staunch conservatives in most democracies. Obama is just a bit left of center. Probably the best we on the far left could hope for. But unless the left gets its ass in gear, and into action, the right will march on back into office. Tris ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/76 "2011-04-17T16:01:37Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > So you’d feel better if we had a Quaker in the Oval Office? I’m sure he’d be known for his honesty and supporting the left… I see what you did there. But he did do a powerful lot for the citizens of the country, to protect them. Sadly, the modern Republicans want to tear it all down, from the EPA to the various consumer safety groups. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/77 "2011-04-17T16:02:27Z")
By the way, Johnson traded accepting the Vice Presidency (a bucket of warm spit) as final payment for every political debt he had ever garnered in his long career. He had the best personal ballance of payments in influence of any president since Washington. Tris ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/78 "2011-04-17T16:25:53Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > I never thought Obama was a die hard liberal. Who did? Quite a few folks, actually - who saw in him what they \*wanted \*to see. That’s a pretty common problem in election season, but if you point it out to those who suffer from it, get ready to be jumped upon. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/79 "2011-04-17T17:55:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Someone I’ve never heard of, I assume, given how being corrupt, amoral and sadistic appears to be a qualification for getting elected. I doubt that anyone who _should_ be President would ever be let near an important political office. We should never elect anyone who actually _wants_ the job! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/80 "2011-04-17T18:31:29Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Either way, I don’t think it’s fair to say there was never any evidence of true **liberalism**. Maybe that’s the disconnect: liberal and progressive aren’t equivalent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550.md?page=5)