# When will people realize that Obama is not a die-hard liberal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550 "2011-04-15T22:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/81 "2011-04-17T20:54:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Maybe that’s the disconnect: liberal and progressive aren’t equivalent. Well, the thread is about whether Obama is a liberal or not, right? I’m not familiar with the difference between ‘‘liberal’’ and ‘‘progressive.’’ Feel free to educate me. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/82 "2011-04-17T22:05:41Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Well, the thread is about whether Obama is a liberal or not, right? > > I’m not familiar with the difference between ‘‘liberal’’ and ‘‘progressive.’’ Feel free to educate me. Wiki is better: > [@](#): > > **Liberalism** > > **The term “progressive” is today often used in place of “liberal.” Although the two are related in some ways, they are separate and distinct political ideologies and should not be used interchangeably.** The reason for this confusion might partly be rooted in the political spectrum being two-dimensional; social liberalism is a tenet of modern progressivism, whereas economic liberalism (and its associated deregulation) is not. According to John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the Center for American Progress, “Progressivism is an orientation towards politics. It’s not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-grounded concept… that accepts the world as dynamic.” Progressives see progressivism as an attitude towards the world of politics that is broader than conservatism vs. liberalism, and as an attempt to break free from what they consider to be a false and divisive dichotomy.[7][8] > Cultural Liberalism[_clarification needed_] is ultimately founded on the belief that the major purpose of the government is to protect rights. Liberals are often called “left-wing”[_citation needed_], in contrast to “right-wing” conservatives. The progressive school, as a unique branch of contemporary political thought, tends to advocate certain center-left or left-wing views that may conflict with mainstream liberal views, despite the fact that modern liberalism and progressivism may still both support many of the same policies (such as the concept of war as a general last resort). > American progressives tend to support international economics: they advocate progressive taxation and oppose the growing influence of corporations. Progressives are in agreement on an international scale with left-liberalism in that they support organized labor and trade unions, they usually wish to introduce a living wage, and they often support the creation of a universal health care system. Yet progressives tend to be more concerned with environmentalism than mainstream liberals[_citation needed_] **In the United States, liberals and progressives are often conflated, and in general are the primary voters of the Democratic Party which has a “large tent” policy, combining similar if not congruent ideologies into large voting blocs.** Many progressives also support the Green Party or local parties such as the Vermont Progressive Party. In Canada, liberals usually support the national Liberal Party while progressives usually support the New Democratic Party, which traditionally has had provincial electorial success in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and British Columbia. The OP used “die-hard liberal” in the title, then progressive in the actual OP. When my friends and I discuss this subject, we agree that Obama is liberal, but not progressive, and that his style of governing is very pragmatic and one of his strengths is his ability to actually get opposing sides to accomplish things. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550/83 "2011-04-17T22:39:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Wiki is better: Interesting (truly - I need to look into this more… I’m currently applying for leadership training at the Center for Progressive Leadership and I should probably get my facts straight before I declare myself to be a progressive.) From the progressivism wiki: > [@](#): > > **The Progressive Movement began in cities with settlement workers and reformers who were interested in helping those facing harsh conditions at home and at work.** The reformers spoke out about the need for laws regulating tenement housing and child labor. They also called for better working conditions for women. > > In the United States, the term progressivism emerged in the late 19th century into the 20th century in reference to a more general response to the vast changes brought by industrialization: an alternative to both the traditional conservative response to social and economic issues and to the various more radical streams of socialism and anarchism which opposed them. Bolding mine. Settlement workers is basically old-timey speak for community organizers. So you could just as easily argue that Obama’s background suggests progressivism as well as liberalism. I agree with your assessment of his strengths. His displomacy/pragmatism is also what attracted me to him. Of course, what I’m seeing (both within myself and within Obama) is the manifestation of incongruent ideologies. There’s bridging the aisle and then there’s social justice. I wanted to believe for a long time that they could always exist hand in hand, but more and more I’m seeing the truth of that old adage, ‘‘Power concedes nothing without a demand.’’ I’m not offering an answer to this conundrum, just a suggestion, based on my own experience, for why he seems to have disappointed so many who voted for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-people-realize-that-obama-is-not-a-die-hard-liberal/578550.md?page=4)