# When will prostitution start to be mainstream legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710 "2012-11-11T20:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/1 "2012-11-11T20:24:00Z")
Yes it is already legal in some counties in Nevada. Now that more and more states are starting to review antiquated victimless laws by legalizing marijuana in one form or another, when will some jurisdictions start exploring legalizing prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/2 "2012-11-11T20:24:37Z")
Need answer fast? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/3 "2012-11-11T20:34:57Z")
[Prostitution is already legal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country) in many jurisdictions, e.g., Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, and most countries in western Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/4 "2012-11-11T20:36:08Z")
OK add in “in the US” where appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/5 "2012-11-11T20:39:45Z")
Do we know of ANY places in the US that are considering it? If so, then we’re pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/6 "2012-11-11T20:52:46Z")
Perhaps a ballot initiative. It’s going to be quite a risk to be an elected official who sticks his neck out to make prostitution legal. There seems to be many people who are strongly against it (even in countries like Canada and the UK where it’s legal although some ancillary elements are not) and not many people who would feel strongly enough about it to change their vote. Prostitutes might be strongly in favor of it but they’re just about the lowest status/wealth group. I don’t think that high status/wealth prostitutes are all that affected by anti-prostitution laws. You’re unlikely to see a John lobby. In other words, the people who are against it tend to be quite strongly against it and to organize. That and it seems to be pretty much de facto allowed by the police as long as you’re not a nuisance or a threat. How often are high class callgirls or their clients arrested? As an example, Elliot Spitzer got busted for using prostitutes but was never charged. He was investigated because financial transfers made it look like he might be getting bribes. When the prosecutors found out it was merely whores and not bribes, they didn’t bother. Does anyone know how it came to be legal in some parts of Nevada? Or was it always legal simply because no one made it illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/7 "2012-11-11T20:56:51Z")
I wasn’t entirely comfortable when we (NZ) legitimised prostitution in 2003 but I have to say the walls of society have not come crumbling down. I doubt the average person even thinks about it these days. The police can concentrate their efforts in more productive areas of crime. The only side-effects are local arguments regarding the location of brothels eg. too close to a school, excessively restrictive zoning laws, positioned in suburbia etc. Brothels however tend to be discreet - those who visit know how to find them anyway. All in all it now seems silly for prostitution to be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/8 "2012-11-11T21:01:44Z")
When you stop being religious. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/9 "2012-11-11T21:09:43Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > I wasn’t entirely comfortable when we (NZ) legitimised prostitution in 2003 but I have to say the walls of society have not come crumbling down. I doubt the average person even thinks about it these days. The police can concentrate their efforts in more productive areas of crime. > > The only side-effects are local arguments regarding the location of brothels eg. too close to a school, excessively restrictive zoning laws, positioned in suburbia etc. Brothels however tend to be discreet - those who visit know how to find them anyway. > > All in all it now seems silly for prostitution to be illegal. Out of curiosity, how did it become legal in NZ? I tend to agree with **MichaelEMouse** about the situation here in the States. While most people are probably more or less indifferent to it becoming legal, the few people that feel strongly about it staying illegal are pretty wealthy and organized, while the people who would benefit are not particularly powerful (the Prostitutes) and/or don’t want to be publicly associated with prostitution (the Johns). Advocating for legalization is all downside for a politician. So who pushed for legalization in NZ (or other countries where it went from being illegal to legal)? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/10 "2012-11-11T21:15:34Z")
Maybe it will happen in Colorado and Washington. With the legal pot/prostitution combo, not only could they bleed money away from the Mexican drug gang black market, they can also capture the European drug-and-sex tourism market. People would travel from all over the world to smoke pot and screw whores while skiing, hiking, camping, fishing and so on. Not saying it is a good idea, but probably more bang for the buck in those places at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/11 "2012-11-11T21:17:43Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Maybe it will happen in Colorado and Washington. With the legal pot/prostitution combo, not only could they bleed money away from the Mexican drug gang black market, they can also capture the European drug-and-sex tourism market. People would travel from all over the world to smoke pot and screw whores while skiing, hiking, camping, fishing and so on. > > Not saying it is a good idea, but probably more bang for the buck in those places at this point. Does Nevada make much money from sex-tourism? I have the impression that its not really a big draw (certainly not compared to legal gambling), but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/12 "2012-11-11T21:22:21Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > probably more bang for the buck in those places at this point. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/13 "2012-11-11T21:34:14Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Does Nevada make much money from sex-tourism? I have the impression that its not really a big draw (certainly not compared to legal gambling), but I could be wrong. I don’t know. But Colorado and Washington strike me as more interesting tourist destinations than a desert. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/14 "2012-11-11T22:20:33Z")
I don’t see much of a move for formally liberalizing this area in the USA in the near future. To the contrary, “sex work” in general is being caught up in a rising tide of “Trafficking” concern leading to measures such as California’s Prop. 35. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/15 "2012-11-11T22:43:17Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > When you stop being religious. You don’t have to be religious to be against prostitution. Hell, Thomas Aquinas was a pretty religious man and he was tolerant of prostitution. So you can even be religious and not be against it. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/16 "2012-11-11T22:48:39Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > You don’t have to be religious to be against prostitution. Hell, Thomas Aquinas was a pretty religious man and he was tolerant of prostitution. So you can even be religious and not be against it. I wasn’t aware of that at all. What was his rationale for being tolerant of it? Was it only that Jesus was close to Mary Magdalene? Was he tolerant of it as long as they did not use contraceptives and, as I have some vague memory of Medieval religious scholars putting it, that it did not matter which receptacle was used for the act as long as the issue occurred within the proper receptacle? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/17 "2012-11-11T23:37:55Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Out of curiosity, how did it become legal in NZ? I tend to agree with **MichaelEMouse** about the situation here in the States. While most people are probably more or less indifferent to it becoming legal, the few people that feel strongly about it staying illegal are pretty wealthy and organized, while the people who would benefit are not particularly powerful (the Prostitutes) and/or don’t want to be publicly associated with prostitution (the Johns). Advocating for legalization is all downside for a politician. > > So who pushed for legalization in NZ (or other countries where it went from being illegal to legal)? …the general history of law reform can be found on the wiki page: > **[Prostitution in New Zealand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_New_Zealand)** > > Prostitution in New Zealand, brothel-keeping, living off the proceeds of someone else's prostitution, and street solicitation are legal in New Zealand and have been since the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 came into effect. Coercion of sex workers is illegal. The 2003 decriminalisation of brothels, escort agencies and soliciting, and the substitution of a minimal regulatory model, created worldwide interest; New Zealand prostitution laws are now some of the most liberal in the world. > Until 20... But basically the reforms were lobbied for by a variety of groups including the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective, the National Council of Women, and the YWCA amongst many others. Tim Barnett introduced the bill into parliament and it was subject to a conscience vote (MP’s are not forced to vote along party lines). One of the most important speeches was made by Georgina Beyer: I’ve posted this several times before here on the dope: gonnna post it again. 🙂 > [@](#): > > GEORGINA BEYER (NZ Labour—Wairarapa) > > I rise to make my contribution to the third reading of this bill, which I support. I would like to begin by expressing my gratitude to the members of this Parliament for a considered and varied debate from both sides and both points of view. Along with that, I congratulate supporters of both sides of the argument for their contribution, which expresses a fair view from both sides of the nation. I particularly congratulate and pay great credit to Tim Barnett, who has had the courage and commitment to see this bill through to this most important point. > > I support the bill, because, as everybody knows, I have had experience in the sex industry—and I am the only member of this Parliament to have had it. If I had had a law like this to protect me and give me some teeth for redress when I was 16 and 17 years old—even on entering into the sex industry—then I might have been spared the 5 or so years I spent in that industry. Barriers would have been created against people who would coerce those under 18 to enter the sex industry in the first place. I support this bill for all the prostitutes I have ever known who have died before the age of 20 because of the inhumanity and hypocrisy of a society that would not ever give them the chance to redeem whatever circumstances made them arrive in that industry. > > This bill provides some of that protection. It provides people like me at that time with some form of redress for the brutalisation that might happen when a client pulls a knife. The horror of that situation is that it could be a life and death one—one does not know—but it would have been nice to know that instead of having to deal out justice afterwards to that person myself, I might have been able to approach the authorities—the police in this case—and say: “I was raped, and, yes, I’m a prostitute, and, no, it was not right that I should have been raped, because I said no, and it was not paid attention to.” > > I think of all the people I have known in that area who have suffered because of the hypocrisy of our society, which, on the one hand, can accept prostitution, while, on the other hand, wants to push it under the carpet and keep it in the twilight world that it exists in. We are bringing prostitution reform into the light with some of what is proposed in this bill, and the criminal element does not necessarily like to be standing in the glare of greater public influence over how an industry like this might be conducted within our society. It is about accepting that that occurs, and it is about accepting the fact that the people who work in this industry deserve some human rights. I plead with those members in this House who are wavering right up to the wire, to think, for heaven’s sake, of the people of whom I have just spoken, including myself, who might be spared some of the hideous nature of the way society treats prostitutes—because that is here with us. > > But if one does have fears, this legislation will be reviewed in 5 years to see how it is operating and whether it is effective. If this bill passes tonight, in 5 years we will be able to reassess its worth. That is something that those who are wavering should be comforted by. But to do nothing now would be irresponsible of this Parliament, because the status quo would remain, and that is unacceptable. This is our one chance in perhaps 20 years to do something. Whatever side of the argument we take, I know we all come from a humanitarian point of view, but I beg members to consider the side I am on, and the side many others in this House are on also. It is the side I consider to be right. It does not diminish, in my opinion, the opinions of those who are against this bill, because some valid points have been made, but not to address this issue now, with this possibility, is not right. > > I will conclude by saying that right now we have a sex industry, and we have legislation based on an outmoded double standard. Let us change, please, the part we can. (Hansard transcript reprinted under Section 27 of the NZ copyright act.) [http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/b/8/b/47HansD\_20030625\_00001319-Prostitution-Reform-Bill-Procedure-Third.htm](http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/b/8/b/47HansD_20030625_00001319-Prostitution-Reform-Bill-Procedure-Third.htm) Georgina was a transexual member of parliament and a former prostitute and her words and the efforts of Tim Barnett and many many others were what bought the reforms through parliament. The legislation was effectively drafted by prostitutes and womans groups: which is why the reforms worked so well and make so much sense. The bill only scraped through by one vote and it is generally thought that Georgina’s impassioned speech was what made the difference. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/18 "2012-11-12T03:07:33Z")
About various places NV: they’re all in rural-ass places, never got the impression that it was a big statewide source of funds. Canada: I get the impression that it’s legal because nobody bothered to make it illegal, not because someone passed a bill making it legal? RI: Apparently it was not enforced, but that stopped in [2009](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Rhode_Island). > [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > When you stop being religious. Okay, make you a deal. I will stop worshiping Venus and you will give me $100 if [I become more accepting of prostitution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution). 🙂 > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I don’t know. But Colorado and Washington strike me as more interesting tourist destinations than a desert. Just sayin’. Good parts of Eastern WA are desert, don’t know about CO. But desert != just sand. Brown, though. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/19 "2012-11-12T04:28:26Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Does Nevada make much money from sex-tourism? I have the impression that its not really a big draw (certainly not compared to legal gambling), but I could be wrong. Nope, most of the Nevada legal brothels are pretty darn sleepy places. Considering that there is a thriving and mostly tolerated illegal sex trade in Vegas, apparently to most people legality isn’t worth driving the 50 miles or so out to where it is legal. The brothels near Reno are a little more substantial because the county lines are such that they’re closer to town, but they’re still not huge attractions. The way Nevada administers legal prostitution is a pretty bad deal all around for everyone but the actual brothel owners. Everything has to be done on-site, so no “house calls” which is probably the big stumbling block. All of the health checks and licensing are required to be handled by the brothel, which means the brothel has virtually complete control over a worker’s ability to work. They also take a substantial cut, which is bad for the workers but also means they’re not really cost-competitive with the illegal trade. There’s not really much reason to go for legal prostitution, Nevada-style, over the various lower risk forms of illegal prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710/20 "2012-11-12T05:11:42Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I wasn’t aware of that at all. What was his rationale for being tolerant of it? Was it only that Jesus was close to Mary Magdalene? Prostitutes functioned as a sort of societal safety valve that would prevent men from turning to homosexuality and other lustful debaucheries. It’s a bit more complicated than that but it’s not an area of history I’m intimately familiar with. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-prostitution-start-to-be-mainstream-legal/640710.md?page=2)