# When will the US start unleashing all these non-lethal weapons in the field? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164 "2004-06-25T11:51:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/21 "2004-06-27T17:35:44Z")
I can see it being used in close quarters - basically a hi-tech version of the old flashlight in the face. The problem with all “less than lethal” weapons is that they still require you to go in and physically detain the person(s), or they are just temporary and ineffective. I certainly support their development for crowd control use, though again, you have to be very careful about how itchy your trigger finger is. Gassing/sticky spraying/whatever a bunch of student demonstrators, while certainly not as bad as killing them, is not going to help your case unless you can demonstrate that it was necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/22 "2004-06-27T19:05:34Z")
MI6 used a dazzler to kill Princess Diana. Mohammed Al-Fayed says so, so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/23 "2004-06-27T19:07:42Z")
Or was it MI5? ---
**Author:** ![sven\_jolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@sven\_jolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sven_jolly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/24 "2004-06-27T20:07:40Z")
How about a 5th generation of war conducted by computers where people just voluntarily jump on the Soylent Green conveyor belt? That way we can save what is really important to the ruling classes, property, and dispense with the disposable, human beings, as required. Even better: We could have it so only the ‘leaders’ risk death when they make war. But if I get any say in the matter whatsoever, I vote we settle all International disputes via Celebrity mud wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/25 "2004-06-27T22:07:50Z")
I thought we did use less than lethal weapons like smart bombs with small explosives (to lessen damage to nearby civilians) bombs designed to destroy tanks that left the people inside alive. Also there was that EMP bomb that was dropped on the Iraqi TV station. But why aren’t we using them in fallujah? I dont know. I thought fallujah was basically a mix of snipers and insurgents planting bombs and running off. Less than lethal weapons don’t seem like they’d work in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/26 "2004-06-27T22:09:32Z")
> [@sven jolly](#): > > How about a 5th generation of war conducted by computers where people just voluntarily jump on the Soylent Green conveyor belt? Sorry, dear, that was [**Star Trek.**](http://mirkwood.ucs.indiana.edu/startrek/episode1.cfm?sn=1&sr=1&ep=17) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/27 "2004-06-27T23:24:51Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s really no such thing as a nonlethal weapon. What about an EMP(ulse) weapon? ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/28 "2004-06-27T23:39:22Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What about an EMP(ulse) weapon? You could drop it on someone. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/29 "2004-06-27T23:40:53Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What about an EMP(ulse) weapon? It could still fall on someone when dropped. _cough_ Or it could knock aircraft out of the sky. You get the point. They now use the term “less than lethal” weapon instead of “nonlethal,” in part to reinforce the idea that pulling the trigger has consequences, and that it isn’t a game of lasertag. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/30 "2004-06-27T23:45:50Z")
Ok if you are going to go that far, a big mac extra value meal could be considered one because you could have a heart attack when you eat one. Anyway I get the point. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/31 "2004-06-28T01:07:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What about an EMP(ulse) weapon? If your opponent’s armed with things like AK-47s, rocks, and anything else non-computerized, and EMP isn’t going to help. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/32 "2004-06-28T05:43:50Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I’ve heard of such a weapon, although I thought it was a Tom Clancy invention. He used it in _Debt Of Honor_. What it allegedly is is a light or laser, which) that focuses a beam that is bright enough to essentially flash-blind someone but has shielding to protect their sight from harmful rays. If this exists, I’d like to see it too. I work around lasers, and I know that lasers are harmful not because they emit “harmful rays”, but because they put out so much energy in such a tiny beam. Just like staring at the sun, it’s dangerous because it’s so bright, and because your eye focuses it to such a small spot. The only way to make it safe would be to reduce the brightness. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/33 "2004-06-28T11:59:07Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > If this exists, I’d like to see it too. > > I work around lasers, and I know that lasers are harmful not because they emit “harmful rays”, but because they put out so much energy in such a tiny beam. Just like staring at the sun, it’s dangerous because it’s so bright, and because your eye focuses it to such a small spot. The only way to make it safe would be to reduce the brightness. They demoed it on a show on the Discovery Channel. Here is a bit: > [@](#): > > One product of the Pentagon’s research is the “Laser Dazzler,” which emits low-power green laser flashes 20 times per second. To the human eye it is 10,000 times brighter than normal light, and it can temporarily blind and disable a person in an instant. > > “You have five senses, plus your ability to think and your ability to move. I would suggest that if I could overcome one, why stop there? Let’s go for two, three, or four,” said Colonel George Fenton, who is part of the Pentagon’s nonlethal weapons program. > > “If I can overcome any of those senses, any of those seven I just named to you, I can take you from an offensive footing to a defense posture. Once I have you in a defensive posture, you have created time for me to better assess the situation and appropriately react,” said Col. Fenton. “You’ve bought time for me to be able to consciously make a decision to go lethal or do something [else].” > > In January, after three years of research, the manufacturer, l-E Technologies in Connecticut, will put the Laser Dazzler into commercial production for sale to police and the military. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/34 "2004-06-28T12:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > If I can overcome any of those senses, any of those seven I just named to you, I can take you from an offensive footing to a defense posture. Help! I can’t taste anything! (Does this make America beer a non-lethal weapon?)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/35 "2004-06-28T13:44:36Z")
Odd - i was talking to friend last nite and we came up with the ultimate non-lethal hooligan / riot weapon. The Anchovie Cannon ™. Like your good old water cannon but with rotten fish juice mixed with a bit of sugar. Easily clean the streets next day and no-one is gonna hang around in the heat covered in sticky, rotten fish juice ! PLuss the local birds will help disperse the crowd by trying to eat the rioters. Any venture capitalists out there?? sin ---
**Author:** ![qcomdrj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a6a055/32.png) [@qcomdrj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qcomdrj)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/36 "2004-06-28T16:49:30Z")
Two things. As for the anchovy cannon, I think that might be an patent infringement somewhere. They used to use catapults in the days of castles and seiges to launch rotting horse and cow carcasses over the walls. The idea was to make it unpleasant to be in there at the least, and possibly make them all come down with dysentery and the like. Insert Monty Python skit here. Anyway, if we are going after all the senses, why not pipe in “Panama” by Van Halen at the 11 setting on the amp. It’s been done before in, of all places, Panama. Or maybe Guatemala. In that instance it was to keep the people from hearing the troops dig under their house, but I would think if you did it long enough, they would leave or impale themselves on farming implements. ---
**Author:** ![Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f04885/32.png) [@Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninja_Pizza_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/37 "2004-06-28T17:33:59Z")
I remember reading about a gizmo that causes “tetanization” i.e. complete paralysis w/out actually hurting the victim/target. \ OK, [this site](http://www.hsvt.org/main.html) has some stuff about it. Device uses two UV laser beams to create an ionization path to feed a current through. The current, it says, “…is a close replication of the neuro-electric impulses that control skeletal muscles.” It goes on to say that it stimulates the muscles to react as a “single sustained contraction,” hence “tetanization”. **If** it works as advertised, sounds like a non-lethal to me. Of course, I don’t think anyone can expect to be stunning people on a battlefield and think no one will get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/38 "2004-06-28T17:58:49Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Help! I can’t taste anything! > > (Does this make America beer a non-lethal weapon?)🙂 A friend of mine once hypothesized a method the Russians could use to cripple the American factories overnight: replace all the twist-off bottle caps with non-twist-off ones, but leave the labels the same. Do this with massive amounts of bottles just before the 4th of July or the Superbowl or something like that, and the next day a vast number of American citizens would have really sore fingers and thumbs, thus bringing the American industrial machine to its knees. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/39 "2004-06-28T21:58:56Z")
There was that one time on Star Trek where Geordi was captured by the Pakleds. (“We find things. Things to make us go.”) Dr. Crusher was worried that Geordi had taken multiple phaser stuns and could be seriously injured. So even fictional Star Trek phasers on “stun” setting aren’t completely foolproof. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164/40 "2004-06-29T01:00:23Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I’ve heard of such a weapon, although I thought it was a Tom Clancy invention. He used it in _Debt Of Honor_. What it allegedly is is a light or laser, which) that focuses a beam that is bright enough to essentially flash-blind someone but has shielding to protect their sight from harmful rays. In other words, a disorienting weapon. An airplane on approach to a target/landing will be flying in a predictable manner, and since the light is so focused you can walk it right up into the target and cause immediate disorientation. > > If it exists I’d like to see it. It’s not that I don’t trust you, **Paul From Saudi** , but I read about it first in a work of fiction and even then I thought it was too good to be true. Tom Clancy’s version was a strobe. If you’re talking about lasers I think you will find the Russians have already deployed them as well as N Korea and China. The assumption would be that N Korea uses the Chinese-made ZM-87. [N Korean incident](http://www.survivalforum.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1134) In 1997 there was an incident with a Russian merchant ship that blinded some pilots. [Russian incident](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/13/74427.shtml) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-will-the-us-start-unleashing-all-these-non-lethal-weapons-in-the-field/252164.md?page=1)